Thank you David for this long response!! You said "which is why they switched to free updates" at the very bottom of your post. Are you saying M$ provides free upgrades? Your reply seems to point out the same issue that is approaching for Win10 - no support. Why are you not concerned about stopping updates - doesn't that make your configuration vulnerable? I did maybe 7 annual Payment Card Industry (PCI) certification on a shopping cart and every year there were more vulnerabilities to address. Seems M$ and Apple would have the same issue. Am I wrong? - Keith On 2025-05-09 12:31, David Schwartz via PLUG-discuss wrote: > Probably because there does not seem to be many Apple fans here. > > Apples policies have not changed in over a decade. They update their OS > every year, and generally speaking they don’t push out breaking changes > that aren’t tied to new hardware. > > The original 2014 platforms supported both 32-bit and 64-bit software, > but one of the OS updates removed support for 32-bits. I will not > upgrade to that OS so as to not lose access to several 32-bit apps — > they cost a lot to update. > > The next major change was adding support for Apples M-series CPUs. The > OS overlapped Intel and Mx for a couple of releases, then they dropped > Intel, so that’s as far as you can go with OS updates. > > Their official policy is they only support the last three releases. But > I continue to get update notices for my 2014 systems, although I Just > ignore them. > > The bigger problem, however, is when there are some hardware changes. > To generate apps for their platforms, you need to run XCode, and it > gets up dates regularly. It’s always updated for new OS releases as > well. You cannot publish new software with older versions of XCode. > > That means at some point when a vendor issues an update of an app you > have, it won’t run on an older OS version. I think that’s where their > “3 last OS releases” comes in, because XCode seems to enforce it. > > So if you don’t want to lose your apps, you just stop installing > updates especially if they want you to upgrade the OS. > > It’s worse on things that run iOS. > > If you know, you know, and stop installing updates. If you don’t, you > lose access to some stuff or you’re told you can’t update any further. > > MS makes a lot of noise for their major transitions, which happen every > 5 years or so. They got jammed-up when so many people refused to pay to > upgrade Windows which is why they switched to free updates — so they > can force people to update their OS. Apple does the same thing, but > they don’t make a big deal about it. > > -David Schwartz > > > > >> On May 9, 2025, at 7:16 AM, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss >> wrote: >> >> Eric and everyone, >> >> Win10 EOL is being taken as a big deal because it will no longer be >> supported, unless one buys extended support. >> >> There is lots of talk about old Apple hardware however I am not >> hearing about any concern for lack of support. Why is that? >> >> - Keith >> >> >> >> On 2025-05-08 13:41, Eric Oyen via PLUG-discuss wrote: >>> David, >>> You’re not the only one! My Mac mini is circa 2012 and it still >>> functions well with its original OS, however, things are starting to >>> come to the point where I’m going to have to install LINUX on it. >>> There’s some things I can’t do with it anymore. (some webpages >>> won’t load properly which means they won’t load inside the screen >>> reader either. However, I’m looking at the open core project, which >>> will probably give me some options as far as updating is concerned. >>> And yes, because I’m on an exceedingly limited income (disability), >>> I am like you in that I cannot afford new equipment every time >>> somebody forces us through the upgrade cycle. >>> Anyway, that’s probably the beauty about Apple hardware is that it >>> lasts a long time. >>> Eric >>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> On May 8, 2025, at 12:01 PM, David Schwartz via PLUG-discuss >>>> wrote: >>>> I truly appreciate your concern and encouragement to spend money >>>> needlessly. I typically keep my hardware until it dies. If you >>>> prefer to replace yours on a schedule even if it’s still working, >>>> that’s up to you. So far, my Mac hardware has lasted far longer >>>> than anything running Windows. I doubt it’s the OS. >>>> (My first iMac died not long after the Apple Care expired — a chip >>>> on the video card failed and they wanted nearly $700 to replace it. >>>> That didn’t seem like a wise investment, so I pulled out the RAM >>>> and HD, and sold the carcass for nearly $400. I could have gotten >>>> more than that by parting out the case, PS, LCD display, and logic >>>> board separately, but that would have taken longer.) >>>> However, I also know that Windows attracts more than an order of >>>> magnitude more attempts to hack the system versus all other >>>> platforms combined, so I CHOOSE to avoid it in large part for that >>>> reason alone. I also prefer *nix to Windows as it’s far more >>>> stable. >>>> Value is measured over time. My experience with Apple’s hardware >>>> is that it lasts far longer than anything I’ve had that runs >>>> Windows. And it does not depreciate nearly as quickly. I’m quite >>>> happy with the value I’ve gotten for my money. >>>> -David Schwartz >>>> On May 7, 2025, at 10:02 AM, Matthew Gibson via PLUG-discuss >>>> wrote: >>>> My wife's macbook died. Multiple times. Several were hard drive >>>> failures. We replaced, with Apple-nazi sanctioned hardware. The >>>> final death was when the graphics card stopped working. Could get a >>>> framebuffer on it. But anything more intensive? nope. Thing said >>>> 'Newp!' So I said 'good-riddance'. >>>> You can like whatever hardware you want. As for me and my house? I >>>> don't run Apple crap. >>>> Too much headache. Too much engineered obsolescence. Too much money >>>> for what it's worth. >>>> Even with the "better hardware" rationale for fanboys paying out >>>> every time a new phone comes out which only improves slightly on a >>>> camera, or better, adds a feature that android has had for years. >>>> I wouldn't want to do any serious work on your old macs that are >>>> ancient. Have you done any vulnerability scans on them? "Might want >>>> to look into that" ~Tony Stark, as he bonks the head of the bad guy >>>> in Iron Man I. >>>> Anyways, I'm not going to change your mind, and this conversation >>>> grows ancient. Like your macs. >>>> T.T.F.N. >>>> On Tue, May 6, 2025 at 6:03 PM David Schwartz via PLUG-discuss >>>> wrote: >>>> On May 4, 2025, at 7:36 PM, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss >>>> wrote: >>>>> I did not know there was a bias on the list. >>>>> - Keith >>>> It’s when people mention “the Apple tax” that the bias shows >>>> up. >>>> At least my older Macs don’t turn into door-stops when Apple stops >>>> supporting them. Two of them cannot be upgraded to the latest >>>> versions of MacOS, but they are fully functional. >>>> From all of the warnings I’m reading about Windows 10, I’m >>>> really not sure what to expect. I have two computers that I can’t >>>> upgrade to Win 11. >>>> -David Schwartz >>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss