There is a person on the list that owns more than a few Thinkpads. Maybe he will give his thoughts. On 2025-05-09 03:14, Michael via PLUG-discuss wrote: > For solid, reasonable cost laptops, consider used Thinkpads on Ebay. > They run Linux well and can be had for a few hundred dollars. You can > easily upgrade or replace, RAM, hard drives, screens, keyboards, etc; > which is getting harder to do on newer systems (except Framework, of > course). These have something like 7th gen Intel CPUs, so they're > fine for most uses, but aren't nearly as fast as new systems. > > Think models like the T480, E590, and X1 Carbon 7th Gen. > > On 5/8/25 4:41 PM, Eric Oyen via PLUG-discuss wrote: > >> David, >> >> You’re not the only one! My Mac mini is circa 2012 and it still >> functions well with its original OS, however, things are starting to >> come to the point where I’m going to have to install LINUX on it. >> There’s some things I can’t do with it anymore. (some webpages >> won’t load properly which means they won’t load inside the >> screen reader either. However, I’m looking at the open core >> project, which will probably give me some options as far as updating >> is concerned. And yes, because I’m on an exceedingly limited >> income (disability), I am like you in that I cannot afford new >> equipment every time somebody forces us through the upgrade cycle. >> >> Anyway, that’s probably the beauty about Apple hardware is that it >> lasts a long time. >> >> Eric >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On May 8, 2025, at 12:01 PM, David Schwartz via PLUG-discuss >>> wrote: >> >>  I truly appreciate your concern and encouragement to spend money >> needlessly. I typically keep my hardware until it dies. If you >> prefer to replace yours on a schedule even if it’s still working, >> that’s up to you. So far, my Mac hardware has lasted far longer >> than anything running Windows. I doubt it’s the OS. >> >> (My first iMac died not long after the Apple Care expired — a chip >> on the video card failed and they wanted nearly $700 to replace it. >> That didn’t seem like a wise investment, so I pulled out the RAM >> and HD, and sold the carcass for nearly $400. I could have gotten >> more than that by parting out the case, PS, LCD display, and logic >> board separately, but that would have taken longer.) >> >> However, I also know that Windows attracts more than an order of >> magnitude more attempts to hack the system versus all other >> platforms combined, so I CHOOSE to avoid it in large part for that >> reason alone. I also prefer *nix to Windows as it’s far more >> stable. >> >> Value is measured over time. My experience with Apple’s hardware >> is that it lasts far longer than anything I’ve had that runs >> Windows. And it does not depreciate nearly as quickly. I’m quite >> happy with the value I’ve gotten for my money. >> >> -David Schwartz >> >> On May 7, 2025, at 10:02 AM, Matthew Gibson via PLUG-discuss >> wrote: >> >> My wife's macbook died. Multiple times. Several were hard drive >> failures. We replaced, with Apple-nazi sanctioned hardware. The >> final death was when the graphics card stopped working. Could get a >> framebuffer on it. But anything more intensive? nope. Thing said >> 'Newp!' So I said 'good-riddance'. >> >> You can like whatever hardware you want. As for me and my house? I >> don't run Apple crap. >> Too much headache. Too much engineered obsolescence. Too much money >> for what it's worth. >> Even with the "better hardware" rationale for fanboys paying out >> every time a new phone comes out which only improves slightly on a >> camera, or better, adds a feature that android has had for years. >> >> I wouldn't want to do any serious work on your old macs that are >> ancient. Have you done any vulnerability scans on them? "Might want >> to look into that" ~Tony Stark, as he bonks the head of the bad guy >> in Iron Man I. >> >> Anyways, I'm not going to change your mind, and this conversation >> grows ancient. Like your macs. >> >> T.T.F.N. >> >> On Tue, May 6, 2025 at 6:03 PM David Schwartz via PLUG-discuss >> wrote: >> On May 4, 2025, at 7:36 PM, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss >> wrote: >>> >>> I did not know there was a bias on the list. >>> >>> - Keith >>> >> >> It’s when people mention “the Apple tax” that the bias shows >> up. >> >> At least my older Macs don’t turn into door-stops when Apple stops >> supporting them. Two of them cannot be upgraded to the latest >> versions of MacOS, but they are fully functional. >> >> From all of the warnings I’m reading about Windows 10, I’m >> really not sure what to expect. I have two computers that I can’t >> upgrade to Win 11. >> >> -David Schwartz >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss