Thomas Scott via PLUG-discuss said on Wed, 26 Oct 2022 12:15:59 -0400 >Seriously though, that's not why I'm here. I don't think what DE/WM >you use, or whether you use systemd, init, or have your own set of >scripts that are written in assembly and COBOL, it's not the point. With regard to the WM/DE, I agree, because you can swap it out for any other WM/DE you want, unless you're using Redhat. Systemd is a different animal, because between the applications with systemd dependencies (often set by the distro, but still), replacing systemd with sysvinit, s3, runit, OpenRC, Busybox Init, or your set of scripts written in Cobol is extremely difficult. As opposed to the list in the preceding sentence, any of which can easily be replaced by any other. [snip] >I got into Linux because it was about choice, it was about what worked >for me >and my needs, Your preceding sentence is *precisely* why I use init systems other than systemd: It was about choice, and the ability to change my mind later without changing distros or recompiling everything. > and not what the corporate overlords have deemed >or what I could afford. The preceding clause is also very apropos. Corporate overlords. My contention, which can neither be proved or disproved, is that complexity is inserted by corporate overlords to impede competition and raise their prices. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Red_Hat_contributions details, among other things, the overwhelming representation of Redhat developers in all aspects of the Gnome project. Redhat pays full time salaries to developers maintaining and further entangling systemd. Is Redhat doing it for the love of the sport? Let's listen to former Redhat CEO Brian Stevens describe Redhat's business model, long before systemd was a thing: http://asay.blogspot.com/2006/10/interview-with-red-hat-cto-brian.html In the preceding link, search the word "complexity" and read that paragraph and the next. Might Redhat have a money motive to complexify Linux? Keep in mind that systemd is currently 1.3 million lines of code, whereas the Runit init system has between 40K and 50K lines of code, was created by one person. > I had crappy hardware, I wanted to learn about >computers, and Linux was my solution, and the freedom it provided >and the doors it opened started me down a path that has provided >jobs and now a career. That's the freedom I was looking for. The preceding sentence was exactly how I got into Linux. >Now *gasp* I run MacOS - even though I could have run Ubuntu or Arch, >because so many of my tools just worked and needed less config. Exactly. And the Linux world didn't end because you went to MacOS. Any more than it would end by people staying with Windows. One more thing. LXDE, LXQt, Xfce, and a host of others are easier and more intuitive than Gnome, because they have hierarchical menus and everything's visible out in the open. So the "we're doing it for the newbies argument doesn't hold water. SteveT Steve Litt Summer 2022 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/thrive.htm --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss