Hi, So to put this to rest, I broke out my old cheep dell laptop that is about 6 or 7 years old. It already had Kubuntu 20.4 installed. I do not recall installing Kubuntu on that laptop. I've been playing with it for a day or so. I am very much impressed. I pulled out my old Linux desktop and will be putting an SSD drive into it and installing Kubuntu on it. It is an i5 with 4 cores and 4 threads. I upgraded it years ago to 16Gb of RAM. I expect Kubuntu will serve my needs. I fall into the camp of I just want my computer to work. And I would like to know more. I'm an old guy and do not have the energy I used to. I have a lot of goals and things I would like to accomplish. I prefer Linux over Microsoft. I like making browser based business web apps using PHP/MySQL. My ultimate goal is to get my YouTube channel and blog going. Thank you to everyone for all of your input. This was a good thread. I sill have a ton of questions. I use Linux to create LAMP servers. I plan on developing a working knowledge of NGINX (LEMP). I'm not a sys admin, I'm a programmer. Given all that I would like to learn what I do not know and strengthen what I do know. Thanks!! Keith On 2022-10-26 00:05, Steve Litt via PLUG-discuss wrote: > Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss said on Tue, 25 Oct 2022 06:30:34 -0700 > >> I don't really have the time to reply to all of this, > > And yet here you are. > >> but I did want >> to reply to a couple of things. >> >>> Let them go back to windows. Not everybody belongs in the Linux >>> world. >> >> This. This right here is why you shouldn't be giving advice to >> newbies. This is the wrong attitude to have if you want to new people >> involved with Linux. > > Not all newbies. The ones who should go back to windows are the ones > not willing to learn Linux. Linux was never intended for the dweeb > whose computer interactions are email, web, and porn. Linux has always > been, and continues to be, for those who want to boss their computers, > not for those who want their computers to boss them. > > Did you just emerge from 1999, when we thought everyone would be using > Linux on the desktop and laptop in a couple years? It's 2022, and Linux > slaughtered Microsoft and Apple (and proprietary Unix) on the server, > but still has only a dedicated core of desktop users. The KDE, Gnome > and systemd you tout erect barriers to those desktop users who want to > boss their computers, and who want at least some POSIX. > > And don't forget that the lead developer on the systemd project now > works for Microsoft. What could *possibly* go wrong? > > >> New people are a good thing, they have new ideas >> and new directions that they want to go, and will take things to >> places never thought before. To push them out will create a dying >> community. > > Like I said, I recommend working with users willing to use Linux. > >> For new people, easier is better, hence GNOME or KDE being a good >> recommendation. > > There's absolutely nothing easy or intuitive about Gnome3. If you want > easy and intuitive, LXDE and LXQt are what you want. > Have you ever used them? XFCE is also in that category, although on > Linux (as opposed to OpenBSD) I've found XFCE glitchy, and XFCE isn't > light enough for an anemic computer, which is the computer a lot of > Windows users have available to dabble with Linux. > >> Once they get their footing then they can go and try >> more esoteric things as they get comfortable. Having them try to use >> straight openbox with a custom configuration is NOT the right advice >> for a new person. > > Please remember, I recommended LXDE and LXQt. My point of Openbox was > to say that if you want an interface that completely stays out of your > way the way you say Gnome3 does, my interface does that. >> >> Lastly, yes I did mean "integrated" and not "dependent" or >> "entangled". > > No matter what you *meant*, "integrated" implies entangled. > >> GNOME 3/4 in no way, shape, or form, REQUIRES systemd. >> You don't have to look far to prove this as it runs on FreeBSD, which >> is systemd-free. And no you don't have to jump through hoops to get it >> working, you install it and enable a couple services and poof it works >> just as well as on any other Linux system. GNOME also a first-class >> desktop environment on Void. > > Well, the Gentoo/Funtoo people sure had to jump through hoops to get > Gnome working with OpenRC, but yeah, you're right, as shown at > https://distrowatch.com/search.php?ostype=All&category=All&origin=All&basedon=All¬basedon=None&desktop=GNOME&architecture=All&package=All&rolling=All&isosize=All&netinstall=All&language=All&defaultinit=Not+systemd&status=Active#simple > > Therefore, I can recommend Void to somebody who wants Gnome. > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > Summer 2022 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times > http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/thrive.htm > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss