On 2022-08-21 17:50, Steve Litt via PLUG-discuss wrote:
> On Sun, 2022-08-21 at 07:08 -0700, techlists@phpcoderusa.com wrote:
> 
>> I think the Universities
>> will dry up.  
> 
> I   H O P E   S O !

M E   T O O ! ! !


> 
> Degree discrimination really frosts my petunias. Very little of the
> programming I've
> done or seen done couldn't be done by a fairly bright person, perhaps
> with 3 or 4
> programming courses in junior college. To me, the higher education
> system is class
> warfare, plain and simple. And I have a BSEE degree.

I would agree, especially PHP.  I think some make PHP more difficult 
than it needs to be.

> 
>> I first looked at college in 1978 and that year it was $275 a semester
>> at the University of Arizona. I ended up going to junior college and 
>> it
>> was $100 my first semester the spring of 1979.
> 
> I took programming and business courses at Santa Monica Community 
> College, for
> $20/course. My income tripled, so both the state of California and I
> laughed all the
> way to the bank.
> 

Nice!!

> 
>> When I was first exposed to programming in 1983 a bachelor's degree 
>> was
>> required to be a programmer. I think that requirement is long gone.  I
>> think employers are looking for just skills.
> 
> 1983 was the tail end of the glass house, IBM Mainframe era, which was 
> almost a
> monopsany. By 1985, with DBASE, Turbo Pascal, and the rise of 
> affordable 286's,
> the Kitchen Table Programmer made his or her move, running circles 
> around the
> mainframe programmers on minis or micros.

Interesting observation.  I started programming on dBaseII in 1986.  A 
manager gave me an Otrona Attache portable computer 
https://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=1227 telling me 
I was the only one who had any computer experience.  At that time I was 
working on an Associates degree in programming.

In 1986 I bought a Commodore 64 and the next year I bought an 8088 
garage clone that has 2 360M floppies and 640K of RAM.  A couple years 
later I got a Seagate ST-225 hard drive, which as I recall, was all of 
20MB and cost somewhere around $300.

I followed the dBase clones all the way to 2000.

I was exposed to Turbo Pascal in junior college and at the university.




> But still, many employers screen out the
> non-degreed. They claim it's because the graduate at least proved 
> he/she could
> complete something. But all too often, what a college degree proves is
> you didn't
> have to spend all your time supporting your family as a kid. By the
> way, 1984 was
> when I busted into professional programming: Whitesmith Pascal on a
> PDP11/23 running
> TSX multitasking over RT/11. The next year I started professional
> programming in C.
> 

Nice!!

>> 
>> I think self study is big today.  
> 
> Huge. And also these inexpensive online courses.
> 
> 
>> And if the economy does crash I'm
>> thinking that the next generation of programmers will be self thought
>> and might just be more inclined to be using Linux.
> 
> LOL, depends on the severity of the crash. If it's too bad the guy
> knowing how to
> grow crops, sanitize water, and buy/sell stuff will be on top.

I've heard that.  Don't think I'll become a farmer in my old age....


> But yeah, if it's
> only like 1982 or 2008-2009, and there aren't enough rich kids to fill 
> the
> programming positions and they don't import hordes of H1-B's, then
> yeah, self taught
> will be more of a thing. By the way, it's already doable: I've seen
> folks do it here
> in Orlando.
> 
> Incidentally, I've seen a formula used, time and time again, for 
> self-taught
> programmers to succeed hugely:
> 
> 1) Learn the technology to a level of plausible expertise.
> 
> 2) Network, network, network.
> 
> 3) Get yourself installed as a presenter at multiple 
> shows/clubs/groups.
> 
> 4) Network, network, network.
> 
> 5) Lowball your way into getting your first client.
> 
> 6) Network, network, network.
> 
> 7) Whipsaw multiple clients to raise your rates.
> 
> 8) Network, network, network.
> 
> 9) Rinse, lather, repeat.
> 
> 
> SteveT
> 
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