Just spent a minute or so researching the Fabian Society and found it to be something that is very wrong. I just want peace and freedom. Life could be so simple. On 2021-08-03 16:51, greg zegan via PLUG-discuss wrote: > when I was a kid they scared everyone with global cooling. > polar ice caps flipping and such. > > This about controlling you and the way you think. > Just found out about the Fabian Society. > look em up. > Central planning has been a dream since the days of Joseph in Egypt in > the Bible. > > Collective Oligarchy is the goal. > you get nothing and like it while the oligarchs get everything serf. > > On Tuesday, August 3, 2021, 06:14:29 PM EDT, Mike Bushroe via > PLUG-discuss wrote: > > I did not realize that there were still people who claimed to believe > that there is no global warming. Makes me wonder if there might be > someone in the group that believe that the Earth is flat. If you want > to get more answers about global warming, and also see the reasoning > behind the evidence, you might want to look at , > > >> Global warming is junk science! > > You are vastly in the minority with that opinion, and that's assuming > that you have the crednetials to make that determination on your own. > Greater than 97% of all published articles on Climate change agree > that the Climate is getting warmer, that is is 95% likely to be due to > human caused sources, and will continue to get worse unless humans > change hoew they effect the climate. > > > >> Why is the summer so cool this year? > > Your facts are uncoordinated. This summer is NOT cool, nor was last > summer. According to US News and World Report > > > > The year June set a new record as the hottest June ever, so I am not > sure where your comment about this being an unusually mild summer > comes from. > > Reported else where July 2020 was the hottest month ever until August > ended ad replaced it as the hottest month ever in Phoenix, and the > record for most days of 100 or higher was also broken in 2020 > > > Also, remember to keep climate separate from weather in your mind. > That means that the record highs for this year and last year don't > mean that global warming is occurring, only that weather extremes may > be the cause. But when you have year after year of setting new > all-time-records you have climate change. > >> Weather trends. The science tells us there are weather trends. > > “Fortunately, consistent temperature estimates made by > paleoclimatologists (scientists who study Earth’s past climate using > environmental clues like ice cores and tree rings) provide scientists > with context for understanding today’s observed warming of Earth’s > climate, which has no historic parallel. “ > > > > Weather trends exist, but are overridden by climate. Climate trends in > and out of Ice Ages, but today we are already warming faster than any > post ice age measured, faster than _any_ known warming cycle. That is > not a trend, and it is not an in-and-out of ice age cycle. We are > entering whole new climate patterns. > >> There was a mini ice age before there where cars. > > See above. The climate is changing faster now than it did for the mini > ice age. > >> The ice caps are not melting > > Your facts are uncoordinated. The north polar ice cap (arctic ice cap) > is shrinking at roughly 10% per decade, the rate has been increasing > except for the 7 years, but current estimates are that this year’s > summer minimum will match the previous record low. > > >> and the oceans rising. > > The sea levels have been climbing for decades already. It is not just > predicitions but also past measurements. So far the rate of rise in > sea levels is only in milimeter per year, but building over time that > is centimeters per decade and meters per century. The rate of rise is > also increasing. Currently most of the melting is floating ice (arctic > and antartic ice shelves) but as land based ice melts (Greenland and > Antartic glaciers) the rate will be much > faster. > > >> LA is still here. > > The sea level rise since 1900 has only 20 centimeters, so you are > correct, LA is still there. But for east coasters even 20 cm on top of > storm surge does make a difference, and it will mean more days each > year that Venice streets are under water. > >> For 30 years you have been telling us > > I believe 30 years of warnings prior to now is possible. > >> in 12 years > > I disbelieve that anyone said 12 years unless they were either very > mistaken or giving out disinformation to make the global warming > proponents seem irrational. Please cite some sources for this claim. > >> the earth is going to burn up. > > I also disbelieve anyone claimed the Earth would "Burn Up". Reach > temperatures that would make some areas that are inhabited now become > unlivable and areas that currently grow food become to drought ridden > to produce food I concurr with. Actually burning up sounds like > another case of trying to make someone look irrational. > >> Just because a car heats up mean nothing more that do not leave > anything in your car that would be adversely effected by the summer > sun and the increased interior temperature. > > I think they were only using it as a common, well known example of how > a given setup such as glass, closed car interior, sun light leads > unavoidably to higher temperatures, just like increased carbon dioxide > in the atmosphere, atmosphere stuck to planet, planet gets warmer. > >> Why does the sun not heat up your car during the winder? Is it global > cooling? > > I don't know what kind of car you drive, but parking mine in sun light > _always_ makes it get warmer inside. The only difference is that in > the winter time that is not a bad thing. > >> We know too little about the weather to determine what is happening. > That is what the scientists say. > > Actually we know a great deal about weather, otherwise we could not > make any forecasts at all. Unfortunately one of those things that we > know about it is that it is sensitive to the 'butterfly effect' which > makes it chaotic and day-to-day weather hard to forecast. But climate > is weather averaged over time or area, and it is very easy to average > all the weather for a given year to see how the climate is changing > > >> What we do know is there is weather cycles and trends. > > "Fortunately, consistent temperature estimates made by > paleoclimatologists (scientists who study Earth’s past climate using > environmental clues like ice cores and tree rings) provide scientists > with context for understanding today’s observed warming of Earth’s > climate, which has no historic parallel." > > > > >> An what about all those hacked emails years ago where the weather > > scientists where encouraging publishing false data. > > "The Climatic Research Unit email controversy (also known as > "Climategate")[2][3] began in November 2009 with the hacking of a > server at the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) at the University of East > Anglia (UEA) by an external attacker,[4][5] copying thousands of > emails and computer files (the Climatic Research Unit documents) to > various internet locations several weeks before the Copenhagen Summit > on climate change." > > "FactCheck.org confirmed that climate change deniers misrepresented > the contents of the emails." > > " Because of the timing, scientists, policy makers and public > relations experts said that the release of emails was a smear campaign > intended to undermine the climate conference." > > > > > If you are still referring to this as significant, it means that > either you have not done anything to check your facts from over a > decade ago, or that you support the theft of private documents, > presenting out of context to create a smear campaign just before a > major, international conference on setting global policies on climate > change mitigation so that you can discredit the scientist who support > global warming without needing to present _any_ facts to disprove it. > > I find it interesting to note that out of 160Mbytes of stolen emails, > documents, and commented climate modeling code the best that they > could come up with two or three things which taken out of context make > them seem like something bad was going on. Of course, if they had > really been falsifying data and conspiring to lock out scientists who > did not support global warming, there would have been vastly more > comments of a much clearer, more detailed nature proving the > 'conspiracy'. Since the two or three little blrubs were all they could > find is almost proof itself that there was nothing going on. > >> What is it you wish to achieve? What so you want us to do? > > Try to save the World? > > Mike Bushroe > > On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 12:00 PM > wrote: > >> Send PLUG-discuss mailing list submissions to >> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> plug-discuss-request@lists.phxlinux.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> plug-discuss-owner@lists.phxlinux.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of PLUG-discuss digest..." >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: >> >> > https://www.zerohedge.com/political/59-million-americans-prohibited-buying-high-end-dell-gaming-pcs >> (Eric Oyen) >> 2. Re: >> >> > https://www.zerohedge.com/political/59-million-americans-prohibited-buying-high-end-dell-gaming-pcs >> (Steve Litt) >> 3. Re: >> >> > https://www.zerohedge.com/political/59-million-americans-prohibited-buying-high-end-dell-gaming-pcs >> (Matthew Crews) >> 4. Re: >> >> > https://www.zerohedge.com/political/59-million-americans-prohibited-buying-high-end-dell-gaming-pcs >> (techlists@phpcoderusa.com) >> 5. Re: >> >> > https://www.zerohedge.com/political/59-million-americans-prohibited-buying-high-end-dell-gaming-pcs >> (techlists@phpcoderusa.com) >> 6. Re: >> >> > https://www.zerohedge.com/political/59-million-americans-prohibited-buying-high-end-dell-gaming-pcs >> (Matthew Crews) >> 7. Re: >> >> > https://www.zerohedge.com/political/59-million-americans-prohibited-buying-high-end-dell-gaming-pcs >> (Matthew Gibson) >> 8. Re: >> >> > https://www.zerohedge.com/political/59-million-americans-prohibited-buying-high-end-dell-gaming-pcs >> (Steve Litt) >> 9. Re: >> >> > https://www.zerohedge.com/political/59-million-americans-prohibited-buying-high-end-dell-gaming-pcs >> (Steve Litt) >> 10. Re: >> >> > https://www.zerohedge.com/political/59-million-americans-prohibited-buying-high-end-dell-gaming-pcs >> (Matthew Gibson) >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Eric Oyen >> To: Main PLUG discussion list >> Cc: >> Bcc: >> Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 14:17:30 -0700 >> Subject: Re: >> > https://www.zerohedge.com/political/59-million-americans-prohibited-buying-high-end-dell-gaming-pcs >> I was going to go into a long involved essay on this citing many >> facts and figures, but I won’t. You cited these numbers, now show >> your work with sources. >> >> Some of your figures don’t account for changes in population >> versus use by sector or total energy = total used + total wasted. It >> also doesn’t explain how China managed to use over 50% of the >> planetary supply of coal in 2020 (more than double that of the US >> for the same period) And that is just coal. (See the fortune article >> here: >> > https://fortune.com/2021/03/29/china-coal-energy-electricity-xi-jinping-2020-ember/) >> and it also doesn’t properly explain energy efficiency taking into >> account usage by sector (see >> > https://www.indy100.com/news/the-world-s-most-energy-efficient-countries-7334291 >> ). It also doesn’t account for changes in technology in the energy >> sector, in specific changes in technology in the transportation >> sector since 1965 (see >> https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/09/20190930-sivak.html) or >> changes in price per gallon of various fossil fuels since 1965 (see >> Cost of gas the year you were born | The State [1]). >> >> Now, as for your other points, please show me hard data (in >> accessible format for the blind) over the last 30 years showing >> actual facts, verified data that isn’t cherry picked, padded or >> otherwise pulled out of thin air) on those points. Only then can we >> have a reasonable discussion. So far, you haven’t really shown >> much on those other points. >> >> SO, please, show your data and show your source that supports it. >> Talking points (regardless of political leaning) are just not >> acceptable. >> >> -Eric >> From the Central Offices of the Technomage Guild, Library Dept. >> >> On Jul 28, 2021, at 1:13 AM, Steve Litt via PLUG-discuss >> wrote: >> >> Eric Oyen via PLUG-discuss said on Tue, 27 Jul 2021 22:53:09 -0700 >> >> So, guys, nice little debate we all got snagged into here because of >> some state regulations that would prevent nearly 60 million people >> from owning technologies that would make their lives more >> convenient. >> Regulations put in place by politicians who know nothing of real >> science and are trying to kiss up to china. Now, where does that >> leave >> us? >> >> It leaves us with 60 million people who can't game quite as hard. >> Boo >> hoo hoo. >> >> What's this fascination with China that you all have? China uses the >> energy equivalent of 27,018 million barrels of oil for 1394 million >> people, equalling 19.4 barrels per person. The US uses the >> equivalent of >> 18,684 million barrels and has 328 million people, equaling 56.9 >> barrels per person. >> >> So here's the question: If some country using almost triple the >> energy >> per person than your country says *you* are the problem and should >> cut, >> and they won't do squat until you cut, what would you say to them? >> >> You ask where it leaves us. Hey, if you're 60 years old, it leaves >> you >> having lived a pretty fun life. If you're 20 years old, it leaves >> you >> with a very hard (and probably considerably foreshortened) second >> half >> of your life. If you were just born today, by the time you graduate >> college, the world will be rife with climate refugees and water >> wars, >> and by the time you're 50, if you last that long, the population >> decline will be brutal and pretty universal except for the very >> rich. >> All because everybody in 2021 said the other guy should cut his >> emissions first. >> >> One more thing: Some friends of mine ran the numbers and according >> to >> them the California computer energy standards aren't as strict as >> those >> of the EU. >> >> I feel not a bit of sorrow for the 60 million potential gamers who >> play >> at a slight disadvantage, if they play at all. I feel sorry for >> their >> grandchildren. >> >> SteveT >> >> Steve Litt >> Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the >> Successful >> Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Steve Litt > To: plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 02:36:50 -0400 > Subject: Re: > https://www.zerohedge.com/political/59-million-americans-prohibited-buying-high-end-dell-gaming-pcs > The time to ask for sources was 4 days ago, when I still had the > websites on my browser. > > So I'll just say this: Get inside a car, in the summer sunlight, whose > windows and doors have been closed for a couple hours. It's hot. > Really > hot. The light from the sun passed through the glass and heated the > seats and interior, heating them up. The heated surfaces emit a much > longer wavelength infrared, which is absorbed by the glass instead of > letting the longer infrared through. So a significant fraction of the > energy from the sun gets trapped in the car, heating it considerably. > We all learned that in high school physics. Here's a reference: > > https://www.greenerchoices.org/how-does-a-greenhouse-work/ > > So the remaining question is, does C02 act like glass? Here are some > cites that say it does: > > https://earthathome.org/quick-faqs/why-is-carbon-dioxide-called-a-greenhouse-gas/ > > https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-carbon-dioxide-is-greenhouse-gas/ > > Listen, I understand your need to look at science through the lens of > an agenda. The "I got mine, screw everyone else" attitude is quite > popular these days, causing people to grasp at straws when science > disagrees with their pet philosophy. But facts are facts, the more C02 > we spew, the hotter Earth gets. And when it gets hot enough, it > releases the methane gas in the ocean: > > https://worldoceanreview.com/en/wor-1/energy/methane-hydrates/ > > And with the released methane, all of a sudden it gets *a > lot* hotter. This has happened in some major extinction events: > > https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1871174X16300488 > > Volcanos were the usual cause. But not this time. > > If you don't believe my cites, find some of your own that aren't > agenda > driven. > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the > Successful > Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques > > Eric Oyen via PLUG-discuss said on Sun, 1 Aug 2021 14:17:30 -0700 > >> I was going to go into a long involved essay on this citing many > facts >> and figures, but I won’t. You cited these numbers, now show your > work >> with sources. >> >> Some of your figures don’t account for changes in population versus >> use by sector or total energy = total used + total wasted. It also >> doesn’t explain how China managed to use over 50% of the planetary >> supply of coal in 2020 (more than double that of the US for the same >> period) And that is just coal. (See the fortune article here: >> https://fortune.com/2021/03/29/china-coal-energy-electricity-xi-jinping-2020-ember/) >> and it also doesn’t properly explain energy efficiency taking into >> account usage by sector (see >> https://www.indy100.com/news/the-world-s-most-energy-efficient-countries-7334291 >> ). It also doesn’t account for changes in technology in the energy >> sector, in specific changes in technology in the transportation > sector >> since 1965 (see >> https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/09/20190930-sivak.html) or >> changes in price per gallon of various fossil fuels since 1965 (see >> Cost of gas the year you were born | The State >> ). >> >> Now, as for your other points, please show me hard data (in > accessible >> format for the blind) over the last 30 years showing actual facts, >> verified data that isn’t cherry picked, padded or otherwise pulled > out >> of thin air) on those points. Only then can we have a reasonable >> discussion. So far, you haven’t really shown much on those other >> points. >> >> SO, please, show your data and show your source that supports it. >> Talking points (regardless of political leaning) are just not >> acceptable. >> >> -Eric >> From the Central Offices of the Technomage Guild, Library Dept. >> >> >>> On Jul 28, 2021, at 1:13 AM, Steve Litt via PLUG-discuss >>> wrote: >>> >>> Eric Oyen via PLUG-discuss said on Tue, 27 Jul 2021 22:53:09 -0700 >>> >>>> So, guys, nice little debate we all got snagged into here because > of >>>> some state regulations that would prevent nearly 60 million people >>>> from owning technologies that would make their lives more >>>> convenient. Regulations put in place by politicians who know >>>> nothing of real science and are trying to kiss up to china. Now, >>>> where does that leave us? >>> >>> It leaves us with 60 million people who can't game quite as hard. > Boo >>> hoo hoo. >>> >>> What's this fascination with China that you all have? China uses > the >>> energy equivalent of 27,018 million barrels of oil for 1394 million >>> people, equalling 19.4 barrels per person. The US uses the >>> equivalent of 18,684 million barrels and has 328 million people, >>> equaling 56.9 barrels per person. >>> >>> So here's the question: If some country using almost triple the >>> energy per person than your country says *you* are the problem and >>> should cut, and they won't do squat until you cut, what would you >>> say to them? >>> >>> You ask where it leaves us. Hey, if you're 60 years old, it leaves >>> you having lived a pretty fun life. If you're 20 years old, it >>> leaves you with a very hard (and probably considerably >>> foreshortened) second half of your life. If you were just born >>> today, by the time you graduate college, the world will be rife > with >>> climate refugees and water wars, and by the time you're 50, if you >>> last that long, the population decline will be brutal and pretty >>> universal except for the very rich. All because everybody in 2021 >>> said the other guy should cut his emissions first. >>> >>> One more thing: Some friends of mine ran the numbers and according > to >>> them the California computer energy standards aren't as strict as >>> those of the EU. >>> >>> I feel not a bit of sorrow for the 60 million potential gamers who >>> play at a slight disadvantage, if they play at all. I feel sorry > for >>> their grandchildren. >>> >>> SteveT >>> >>> Steve Litt >>> Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the >>> Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Matthew Crews > To: plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 05:41:54 -0700 > Subject: Re: > https://www.zerohedge.com/political/59-million-americans-prohibited-buying-high-end-dell-gaming-pcs > All this bickering is missing the overall point: > > The era of mainstream desktop PCs draining huge amounts of electricity > is over. The expectation is that we now use power efficient PCs, > whether > we like it or not. > > If only the graphics card vendors would make usable high end graphics > cards that don't require 550W all by itself, and 850W power supplies > for > the whole system. > > https://www.gamepressure.com/newsroom/geforce-rtx-3090-will-require-850w-power-supply-and-12-pin-plug/zb22f1 > > Power efficient electronics have been the norm for awhile, and power > efficiency is a huge deal in laptop PCs and servers (and has been for > a > VERY long time). Its only just now caught up to the desktop PC market. > > -Matt > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: techlists@phpcoderusa.com > To: Main PLUG discussion list > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2021 07:52:17 -0700 > Subject: Re: > https://www.zerohedge.com/political/59-million-americans-prohibited-buying-high-end-dell-gaming-pcs > > Global warming is junk science! Why is the summer so cool this year? > > Weather trends. The science tells us there are weather trends. There > > was a mini ice age before there where cars. The ice caps are not > melting and the oceans rising. LA is still here. For 30 years you > have > been telling us in 12 years the earth is going to burn up. > > Just because a car heats up mean nothing more that do not leave > anything > in your car that would be adversely effected by the summer sun and the > > increased interior temperature. > > Why does the sun not heat up your car during the winder? Is it global > > cooling? > > We know too little about the weather to determine what is happening. > That is what the scientists say. > > What we do know is there is weather cycles and trends. > > An what about all those hacked emails years ago where the weather > scientists where encouraging publishing false data. > > What is it you wish to achieve? What so you want us to do? > > On 2021-08-01 23:36, Steve Litt via PLUG-discuss wrote: >> The time to ask for sources was 4 days ago, when I still had the >> websites on my browser. >> >> So I'll just say this: Get inside a car, in the summer sunlight, > whose >> windows and doors have been closed for a couple hours. It's hot. > Really >> hot. The light from the sun passed through the glass and heated the >> seats and interior, heating them up. The heated surfaces emit a much >> longer wavelength infrared, which is absorbed by the glass instead > of >> letting the longer infrared through. So a significant fraction of > the >> energy from the sun gets trapped in the car, heating it > considerably. >> We all learned that in high school physics. Here's a reference: >> >> https://www.greenerchoices.org/how-does-a-greenhouse-work/ >> >> So the remaining question is, does C02 act like glass? Here are some >> cites that say it does: >> >> > https://earthathome.org/quick-faqs/why-is-carbon-dioxide-called-a-greenhouse-gas/ >> >> > https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-carbon-dioxide-is-greenhouse-gas/ >> >> Listen, I understand your need to look at science through the lens > of >> an agenda. The "I got mine, screw everyone else" attitude is quite >> popular these days, causing people to grasp at straws when science >> disagrees with their pet philosophy. But facts are facts, the more > C02 >> we spew, the hotter Earth gets. And when it gets hot enough, it >> releases the methane gas in the ocean: >> >> https://worldoceanreview.com/en/wor-1/energy/methane-hydrates/ >> >> And with the released methane, all of a sudden it gets *a >> lot* hotter. This has happened in some major extinction events: >> >> > https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1871174X16300488 >> >> Volcanos were the usual cause. But not this time. >> >> If you don't believe my cites, find some of your own that aren't > agenda >> driven. >> >> SteveT >> >> Steve Litt >> Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the > Successful >> Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques >> >> Eric Oyen via PLUG-discuss said on Sun, 1 Aug 2021 14:17:30 -0700 >> >>> I was going to go into a long involved essay on this citing many > facts >>> and figures, but I won’t. You cited these numbers, now show your > work >>> with sources. >>> >>> Some of your figures don’t account for changes in population > versus >>> use by sector or total energy = total used + total wasted. It also >>> doesn’t explain how China managed to use over 50% of the > planetary >>> supply of coal in 2020 (more than double that of the US for the > same >>> period) And that is just coal. (See the fortune article here: >>> > https://fortune.com/2021/03/29/china-coal-energy-electricity-xi-jinping-2020-ember/) >>> and it also doesn’t properly explain energy efficiency taking > into >>> account usage by sector (see >>> > https://www.indy100.com/news/the-world-s-most-energy-efficient-countries-7334291 >>> ). It also doesn’t account for changes in technology in the > energy >>> sector, in specific changes in technology in the transportation > sector >>> since 1965 (see >>> https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/09/20190930-sivak.html) or >>> changes in price per gallon of various fossil fuels since 1965 (see >>> Cost of gas the year you were born | The State >>> ). >>> >>> Now, as for your other points, please show me hard data (in > accessible >>> format for the blind) over the last 30 years showing actual facts, >>> verified data that isn’t cherry picked, padded or otherwise > pulled out >>> of thin air) on those points. Only then can we have a reasonable >>> discussion. So far, you haven’t really shown much on those other >>> points. >>> >>> SO, please, show your data and show your source that supports it. >>> Talking points (regardless of political leaning) are just not >>> acceptable. >>> >>> -Eric >>> From the Central Offices of the Technomage Guild, Library Dept. >>> >>> >>>> On Jul 28, 2021, at 1:13 AM, Steve Litt via PLUG-discuss >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Eric Oyen via PLUG-discuss said on Tue, 27 Jul 2021 22:53:09 -0700 >>>> >>>>> So, guys, nice little debate we all got snagged into here because > of >>>>> some state regulations that would prevent nearly 60 million > people >>>>> from owning technologies that would make their lives more >>>>> convenient. Regulations put in place by politicians who know >>>>> nothing of real science and are trying to kiss up to china. Now, >>>>> where does that leave us? >>>> >>>> It leaves us with 60 million people who can't game quite as hard. > Boo >>>> hoo hoo. >>>> >>>> What's this fascination with China that you all have? China uses > the >>>> energy equivalent of 27,018 million barrels of oil for 1394 > million >>>> people, equalling 19.4 barrels per person. The US uses the >>>> equivalent of 18,684 million barrels and has 328 million people, >>>> equaling 56.9 barrels per person. >>>> >>>> So here's the question: If some country using almost triple the >>>> energy per person than your country says *you* are the problem and >>>> should cut, and they won't do squat until you cut, what would you >>>> say to them? >>>> >>>> You ask where it leaves us. Hey, if you're 60 years old, it leaves >>>> you having lived a pretty fun life. If you're 20 years old, it >>>> leaves you with a very hard (and probably considerably >>>> foreshortened) second half of your life. If you were just born >>>> today, by the time you graduate college, the world will be rife > with >>>> climate refugees and water wars, and by the time you're 50, if you >>>> last that long, the population decline will be brutal and pretty >>>> universal except for the very rich. All because everybody in 2021 >>>> said the other guy should cut his emissions first. >>>> >>>> One more thing: Some friends of mine ran the numbers and according > to >>>> them the California computer energy standards aren't as strict as >>>> those of the EU. >>>> >>>> I feel not a bit of sorrow for the 60 million potential gamers who >>>> play at a slight disadvantage, if they play at all. I feel sorry > for >>>> their grandchildren. >>>> >>>> SteveT >>>> >>>> Steve Litt >>>> Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the >>>> Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques >>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: techlists@phpcoderusa.com > To: Main PLUG discussion list > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2021 09:19:31 -0700 > Subject: Re: > https://www.zerohedge.com/political/59-million-americans-prohibited-buying-high-end-dell-gaming-pcs > > I think we are missing the point. > > This is America!! We have lost our way. > > Government was instituted to protect us at the Federal level and > protect > us, provide water, sewer, roads, and schools and no more at the local > level. At the state level the government is supposed to protect us > from > runaway federal government. > > As for cars that use too much fuel and computers that use too may > watts, > let the market place decide not the government. > > We have a problem in California where they do not clean the forest > floor > of dead fuel and then they wonder why there are so many wild fires. > > California is also guilty of not maintaining it's power grid so now > they > have rolling blackouts. > > As a side note California also has the most homeless of any place on > earth. I read the richest place on earth, silicon valley, has > designer > trash cans and human excrement on the sidewalks and streets. > > We have lost our way. We need Government to get out of the way and > let > the FREE market decide what Americans want to consume and let private > business provide those goods and services. > > As a side note, did you know that America is producing less pollution > that it has in the past? > > By the way CO2 is natural. Plants were CREATED to take CO2 and turn > it > into oxygen. > > From the Internet : > > "Plants are autotrophs, which means they produce their own food. They > use the process of photosynthesis to transform water, sunlight, and > carbon dioxide into oxygen, and simple sugars that the plant uses as > fuel.". > > I think my neighborhood is doing it's part. We have an HOA that > requires each home have a mix of plants per the CC&Rs. All of this is > > artificial. We pipe water in to the houses and some of the water > finds > it's way into our drip irrigation. > > On the other hand this leads some to hire gardeners. These gardeners > drive big gas burning trucks and pull trainers full of refuge and > power > tools - most of which use gas. If I believed in global warming, which > I > do not, I would be concerned. > > I could start a blog on global warming. > > Follow the money. Look at Al Gore who is making money off of global > warning and stands to make a ton. > > If Al Gore was really concerned wouldn't he be concerned about his > electric and gas foot print. No he is an elitist that does not care. > > He has a huge home with huge upkeep. If you want to lead you much > lead > by example. Al Gore has proven to be a man who wants to make money > off > of our sufferings. > > We have been duped. > > On 2021-08-02 05:41, Matthew Crews via PLUG-discuss wrote: >> All this bickering is missing the overall point: >> >> The era of mainstream desktop PCs draining huge amounts of > electricity >> is over. The expectation is that we now use power efficient PCs, >> whether >> we like it or not. >> >> If only the graphics card vendors would make usable high end > graphics >> cards that don't require 550W all by itself, and 850W power supplies > >> for >> the whole system. >> >> > https://www.gamepressure.com/newsroom/geforce-rtx-3090-will-require-850w-power-supply-and-12-pin-plug/zb22f1 >> >> Power efficient electronics have been the norm for awhile, and power >> efficiency is a huge deal in laptop PCs and servers (and has been > for a >> VERY long time). Its only just now caught up to the desktop PC > market. >> >> -Matt >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Matthew Crews > To: techlists@phpcoderusa.com, Main PLUG discussion list > > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 09:41:57 -0700 > Subject: Re: > https://www.zerohedge.com/political/59-million-americans-prohibited-buying-high-end-dell-gaming-pcs > On 8/2/21 9:19 AM, techlists@phpcoderusa.com wrote: >> >> I think we are missing the point. >> >> This is America!! We have lost our way. > > Except... this is a global issue, and not just an American issue. > > Looking at it through the lens of America first, and blinding yourself > to the global ramifications, is super short sighted. > > As a member of a Linux mailing list, I would hope that we are > remembering to look up once in awhile and remember our global > neighbors. > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Matthew Gibson > To: Main PLUG discussion list > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 10:02:13 -0700 > Subject: Re: > https://www.zerohedge.com/political/59-million-americans-prohibited-buying-high-end-dell-gaming-pcs > So let's see our global neighbors take up more of the slack in cutting > their carbon emmissions, while America continues to invest in > technology that will benefit the globe and do so at market rates. > Instead of by royal dictate that lines the pockets of corrupt > government members. > > There's a reason people are pouring over the southern border and > waiting in droves to properly immigrate here. Because of the freedom > and opportunity that can be found here. The freedom and opportunity > some members of our citizenry are so quick to sacrifice to a farce of > a government promise of safety or security. > > On Mon, Aug 2, 2021, 9:42 AM Matthew Crews via PLUG-discuss > wrote: > >> On 8/2/21 9:19 AM, techlists@phpcoderusa.com wrote: >>> >>> I think we are missing the point. >>> >>> This is America!! We have lost our way. >> >> Except... this is a global issue, and not just an American issue. >> >> Looking at it through the lens of America first, and blinding >> yourself >> to the global ramifications, is super short sighted. >> >> As a member of a Linux mailing list, I would hope that we are >> remembering to look up once in awhile and remember our global >> neighbors. >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Steve Litt > To: plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 14:46:03 -0400 > Subject: Re: > https://www.zerohedge.com/political/59-million-americans-prohibited-buying-high-end-dell-gaming-pcs > Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss said on Mon, 02 Aug 2021 09:19:31 -0700 > >> I could start a blog on global warming. >> >> Follow the money. > > Straight to the oil companies. > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the > Successful > Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Steve Litt > To: plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 14:49:26 -0400 > Subject: Re: > https://www.zerohedge.com/political/59-million-americans-prohibited-buying-high-end-dell-gaming-pcs > Matthew Gibson via PLUG-discuss said on Mon, 2 Aug 2021 10:02:13 -0700 > >> There's a reason people are pouring over the southern border and >> waiting in droves to properly immigrate here. Because of the freedom >> and opportunity that can be found here. > > And if you have your way, in 50 years Americans will be pouring over > the Canadian border just to feel a cool breeze every few weeks. > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the > Successful > Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Matthew Gibson > To: Main PLUG discussion list > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 11:56:48 -0700 > Subject: Re: > https://www.zerohedge.com/political/59-million-americans-prohibited-buying-high-end-dell-gaming-pcs > And if you have your way we will be looking a lot like Venezuela or > Cuba. > > Now, aside from attempting to force your will upon me and society, > what can you personally do to lower your carbon footprint? > > On Mon, Aug 2, 2021, 11:49 AM Steve Litt via PLUG-discuss > wrote: > >> Matthew Gibson via PLUG-discuss said on Mon, 2 Aug 2021 10:02:13 >> -0700 >> >>> There's a reason people are pouring over the southern border and >>> waiting in droves to properly immigrate here. Because of the >> freedom >>> and opportunity that can be found here. >> >> And if you have your way, in 50 years Americans will be pouring over >> the Canadian border just to feel a cool breeze every few weeks. >> >> SteveT >> >> Steve Litt >> Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the >> Successful >> Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > _______________________________________________ > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > -- > > KINDNESS > > is most VALUABLE when it is GIVEN AWAY for > > FREE > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > Links: > ------ > [1] https://www.thestate.com/news/databases/article68603317.html > [2] http://climate.nasa.gov > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss