Those are good points Mark. I home office. No partners and my wife does not mess with my computers. Lots of pros and cons. Thanks!! On 2021-07-23 11:50, Mark Phillips via PLUG-discuss wrote: > Keith, > > All things being equal, I would use the laptop. You can disable the > screen and even close the lid, although I leave mine up about 30% for > cooling. > > There will come a time long after you install the OS that something > will happen and the computer won't boot. You then need to (1) find > that old monitor; (2) find the right cable; (3) find the right mouse; > (3) pull out the computer from whatever corner it has been relegated > to since you haven't touched it in, maybe years?; (4) hook up the > monitor, mouse, etc. and diagnose the problem. With the laptop, just > fold up the screen, reboot, hit f-something to get into safe boot, and > diagnose the problem. The fun part is when your partner donates that > old monitor to Goodwill in an effort to "clean up the clutter"....if > ssh doesn't work, now you are shopping at Goodwill for an old monitor. > > This story is based on real life experiences. Only the names were > changed to protect the innocent. > > Mark > > On Fri, Jul 23, 2021 at 10:09 AM Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss > wrote: > >> Thanks David!! >> >> On 2021-07-21 19:26, David Schwartz via PLUG-discuss wrote: >>> If this is just for learning, do you want or need it to run >> 24/7/365? >>> If not, you can shut it off when you don’t need it if you’re >>> concerned about power. >> >> The goal is for it to run 24/7 serving up one of my domains. >> >>> >>> Note that a lot of old PCs have power supplies where the fans run >> all >>> the time. They can end up consuming quite a bit of power. >>> >>> You might consider a 2012-vintage Mac Mini. It already has Unix >>> built-in and everything you need to run as a server. >>> >>> They’re between $150 and $250 on eBay and sometimes as low as >> $100. >>> >>> FWIW, thru most of the 90’s I had a little box I ran as a >> dedicated >>> server at a co-lo facility in town. >>> >>> It was a mini-ITX with a 600 MHz x86 clone chip, 256 MB of RAM, a >> 20GB >>> HDD, and 10MB ethernet. I ran Debian on it. After the third HDD >> died, >>> I moved to a reseller-type WHM/cPanel hosting account that was a >> LOT >>> cheaper per month. (My current one is less than $20/mo.) >>> >>> (The co-lo facility’s biggest monthly expense was their A/C >> bill.) >>> >> >> I have too much old hardware. I was going to use an old Dell i3... >> however I am thinking of using one of my old laptops. >> >> Both have their merits. >> >> The laptop has a build in monitor... however I do not need the >> monitor >> once the O/S is installed. I then use SSH. >> >> I'm thinking the Dell mini tower has a faster bus and memory. And it >> has >> 8GB of RAM vs 4GB of RAM on the Laptop. I'm guessing the faster bus >> and >> RAM will make a difference. >> >> They both have 2 cores and 4 threads. >> >> Both CPUs benchmark the same and they have the exact same SSD. >> >> I'm thinking the mini tower is better. I do not think I will ever >> use >> 8GB of RAM on a home web server. >> >> Given what everyone is saying, the amount of power used is somewhat >> dependent on demand. Low demand = low power usage. >> >>> The Raspberry Pi Zero W costs $10, and has these features: >>> >>> • 1GHz, single-core CPU >>> >>> • 512MB RAM >>> >>> • 802.11 b/g/n wireless LAN >>> >>> • Bluetooth 4.1 >>> >>> • Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE) >>> >>> • Mini HDMI and USB On-The-Go ports >>> >>> • Micro USB power >>> >>> • HAT-compatible 40-pin header >>> >>> • Composite video and reset headers >>> >>> • CSI camera connector >>> >>> It consumes 120-170 mA (but can source over 1A to USB), so can run >> off >>> of a USB battery pack if needed. >>> >>> This puppy has more power and features than that mini-ITX machine >> I >>> had! >>> >>> It comes with a ready-to-run Linux on an SD card and fits into a >> box >>> about the size of a pack of cigarettes. No fan is needed AFAIK. >>> >>> You can plug nearly any size storage you want into the USB port, >>> although the SD card can be used for additional storage. >> >> I would like to try a Raspberry Pi ... maybe a future project. >> >>> >>> -David Schwartz >>> >>>> On Jul 21, 2021, at 6:50 PM, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Eric, >>>> >>>> I assume you live in the valley? And you use a master cool >>>> evaporative cooler... Off topic question - Does your master cool, >>>> cool your house reasonably in the summer and more so during the >>>> monsoons? >>>> >>>> On 2021-07-21 15:50, Eric Oyen via PLUG-discuss wrote: >>>> Back when I ran a home server on my Athlon X2 with 1500 W supply, >>>> the >>>> machine never drew that much. Even with several disks spinning, 8 >>>> VMWare instances going and a few other goodies, that machine >> never >>>> drew more than 600w at maximum. I kept it live 24/7 for a few >> years >>>> and it added less than $120 yearly to the electrical bill. These >>>> days, >>>> that machine is out of service and is only good for parts. My Mac >>>> mini, which draws at most 100 W under full load is on 24/7 and I >>>> don’t >>>> even see it add that much to the electrical bill here. There are >>>> really only 3 high draw appliances in this house now: >>>> 1. The refrigerator >>>> 2. The stove/oven >>>> 3. The master cool evaporative cooler. Everything else either >> runs >>>> on >>>> wall warts or only gets used occasionally. In fact, we spend less >>>> than >>>> $150 a month here for electric. Now, if I put that Athlon X2 back >>>> into >>>> service, we might see $10 a month in extra use. I am still >>>> contemplating putting it back up and using it as my go to linux >>>> development machine. >>>> -Eric >>>> From the Central Offices of the Technomage Guild, Utilities Dept. >>>> On Jul 21, 2021, at 7:33 AM, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss >>>> wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> I just read this quote about the electrical costs to run a web >>>> server from home: >>>> Cost: While it may sound cheaper to use that computer lying >> around >>>> doing nothing when creating your web server, when you factor in >> the >>>> cost of powering an old computer 24 hours a day, it can get very >>>> expensive. A 250W desktop computer running 24 hours per day at 12 >>>> cents per KW/h is a whopping $262.00 per year! >>>> --- >>>> I think their math is wrong. >>>> The average residential electricity rate in Chandler is >> 10.85¢/kWh. >>>> I'm thinking a low traffic PHP web server running on an old Dell >>>> with a 400 watt power supply is not using but maybe 100 watts on >>>> average. I've read that the computer should use no more than >> half >>>> the power supply capacity. Is this correct? >>>> If my home web server is using 100 watts an hour that mean 100 >> watts >>>> * 30 days * 24 hours or 72K watts. >>>> I'm thinking 72 * .1085 = $7.81 a month. >>>> Any thoughts are much appreciated. >>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [1] >>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [2] >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [3] >>> >>> >>> Links: >>> ------ >>> [1] >>> >> > https://u2206659.ct.sendgrid.net/ls/click?upn=SJEG7TF39YLaAIMD0HhsfC6E-2FcJXOs2D1VhGcvn2YkObFLMBOC3gmante55BOqf2F-2ByuZjZxeWAcK3DSlXP4Xtp4dQImX1G2Oq-2BQoN6woQ4-3D27bM_o-2BjQxMsWfboH-2B-2BcY2qb3IYCoqvthnvff9ftZz0pNEJ2tF1jbVlVBtrlaPYq4av3GF3UUF7efPanQ4RZGf1sQP61nHUwW3FwYa5kLinB-2BOJtGQy9ylbsa4bZU8DY1pkf-2FTk7qLgH1nF9-2FbJIqW0w0QOstTnCgqx71j6I77t3b5-2BJetn30EVt1aisRcXGF8F5vlU5xv-2BIK9pmP9QEzXaTzPbqSHxDx79pwiYxrdP2U1Jw-3D >>> [2] >>> >> > https://u2206659.ct.sendgrid.net/ls/click?upn=SJEG7TF39YLaAIMD0HhsfC6E-2FcJXOs2D1VhGcvn2YkObFLMBOC3gmante55BOqf2F-2ByuZjZxeWAcK3DSlXP4Xtp4dQImX1G2Oq-2BQoN6woQ4-3DO3k5_o-2BjQxMsWfboH-2B-2BcY2qb3IYCoqvthnvff9ftZz0pNEJ2tF1jbVlVBtrlaPYq4av3GF3UUF7efPanQ4RZGf1sQP-2BlK1m2ns2DdbNAEwCiBUY7kLSFAyuSoqkr7SgVP5KdvKEqSwrPHHjJ4CNj-2F3YpZgoZu1h1o-2FkWGc-2FLuPUi-2Bn1jd5yQ3z5So1EodMUOSUJCoVzLeOfZos9ZflMktenWnwE1VnzSeWyYqfd570ERJwcw-3D >>> [3] >>> >> > https://u2206659.ct.sendgrid.net/ls/click?upn=SJEG7TF39YLaAIMD0HhsfC6E-2FcJXOs2D1VhGcvn2YkObFLMBOC3gmante55BOqf2F-2ByuZjZxeWAcK3DSlXP4Xtp4dQImX1G2Oq-2BQoN6woQ4-3DPpha_o-2BjQxMsWfboH-2B-2BcY2qb3IYCoqvthnvff9ftZz0pNEJ2tF1jbVlVBtrlaPYq4av3GF3UUF7efPanQ4RZGf1sQP-2Fu4bfFdv1gMRYeidQ-2BKLtRGkiC5O3ylYPKs9uKRkP-2FkOhUSiGnY-2FJ4XXGw80JYcXgXl-2FHdw3OEUw5k8dkU8Nu-2Bs4OwMlVVjJnwguC6N3oYaZPtpKCI3R-2BsktfbH4h5SCFBzP79GPzRJFy-2F4clajmSQ-3D >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss