Is this a programming / sys admin phenomena or is it across the board within all industries? I have always thought of technology in the terms of sports. We all knew that guy or gal in high school that was a gifted athlete, however they did not go beyond high school. Out of all the gifted athlete in high school only a percentage go on to college sports. Some will make it to the farm team. And only a handful will make it to the pros. I think technology is much the same. To go far in technology one needs to have that gift. Over the years I have run into people who appear to be skilled programmers or system admin that are not working in technology or are underemployed. Is it a problem with getting the first job? Once you have that first job one can build from there? I watched a guy start at inbound GoDaddy level 1 tech, moved to another hosting company where he was a lead with sudo, to being a sys admin. Maybe this is anecdotal. I don't necessarily think so.... This is how I have seen people progress all my life. I'm open to hearing more. One of the things I am not open to is gov interference or anything gov funded. Maybe the real problem is we do not have all the manufacturing jobs we once had - those good paying manufacturing jobs. On 2016-12-10 21:30, Stephen M wrote: > Since I am a millennium I thought I should chip in at least once. > Although this thread started has H1B which actually hurts both the > foreign worker and the American work that's my stance there. The > American worker is losing their job to someone that will take a lot > less but do the same work. The foreign worker because they are being > paid less and although there are places to live that are dirt cheap > they are not always the best. The economy has suffered for years and > there are too many contributing factors to name. > > Now the last couple of arguments are more hitting home. Yes I have a > bachelors and a couple of certificates, working on more certificates, > but still working help desk. Do I know more than that sure. Could I > work in a different place that could accelerate my > learning/understanding/knowledge whatever you want to call it yes. > When my father was young he went to the military and went to school > That was the first time he really touched a computer. So in those > days yes it was almost handed to people to have jobs. Nowadays it's > more of who you know rather than what you know. I can't tell you how > many "network technicians" I've helped over the years to configure a > router. I've worked to get where I am and struggling to move around. > But it's not only my location but also my type of degree. CIS is not > the most notable computer degree out there. But beyond that I have > certificates, practice my *nix skills at home. But they don't mean > anything to the work place. My other degree would be in business > management so hopefully I'm not stepping on feet here. > > On the one hand you need to have the education and knowledge how to do > what you work with. Getting a good paying job doesn't only help with > that whether the company is paying for the training or not. But you > also need to be physically strong and mentally healthy. So getting > paid a living wage is necessary to have both of those. Sure you could > be poor and be laid back and still get a decent job. But to uplift > yourself does take a degree of basic needs. From economics when a > people can satisfy their basic needs then they start to look at other > needs. Now onto the reverse, like I said I've worked with enough > technicians setup a router for nothing more than simple routing. > These people properly knew someone and then they got hired and make > decent money. So they could have high marks, certificates, and all > other form of so called knowledge that means nothing. Yet they are > still making big bucks. > > The take away here hopefully is one, foreign workers aren't getting > screwed any less than American workers. You need to have your basic > needs met first before you can worry about uplifting yourself. And > last but not least not trying to sound like a recruiter but getting to > know someone these days is a necessary. Just please don't call tech > support asking how to put your router that has a static IP into bridge > mode. > > On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 8:56 PM, Steve Litt > wrote: > >> On Sat, 10 Dec 2016 09:51:44 -0700 >> Keith Smith wrote: >> >>> I had dinner with a couple guys from a programming agency last >>> night. The senior owner is about 55 and the junior owner is about >>> 35. I'm guessing they make exceptionally good money. What was >> the >>> mix that made them successful? Skills, personality, an hard work. >>> They both attended college, developed some in demand skills, with >> a >>> little luck and hard work they are doing very well. >> >> These two guys are one anecdote. >> >> Your life story is another anecdote. A few anecdotes don't prove >> anything. There are always people who can overcome obstacles. But >> today's obstacles are much more difficult for the average person to >> overcome. >> >> Except for the 82/83 recession, the 70's and 80's you remember as >> difficult were paradise compared to the world faced by the last >> decade >> of high school grads. >> >> My assertions can be born out by statistics on cost of living, >> unemployment, and real wages, broken out by age group. It's not hard >> to >> find. >> >> The shame is, a higher minimum wage and a few other minor tweaks >> could >> have fixed these problems enough to stay on a stable course. >> >> This is tired and offtopic. There's no convincing you that life >> isn't >> an endless meritocracy: I won't try further. Just don't come crying >> to me if the nation you love and fought for disintegrates. It would >> have been pretty easy to prevent with a stitch in time. >> >> SteveT >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [1] > > -- > Stephen Melheim > 602-400-7707 > SMelheim85@gmail.com > > Links: > ------ > [1] http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- Keith Smith --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss