There has been a move towards going independent. Might be the solution. I hear the next administration might nix the H1B. On 2016-12-07 09:24, Eric Oyen wrote: > well, there is something else in the picture here that hasn't been > mentioned. what about all that student aid debt that a lot of us still > have to pay for? Seriously, these companies expect you to get a top > education, have a degree and then work you for peanuts? that education > costs a lot of money and it's going to be hard to pay it off if you > don't earn enough to break even on rent, utilities, food,ACA insurance > and student loan payments. something has got to give. > > -eric > home office of the Technomage guild. > > On Dec 7, 2016, at 8:25 AM, Keith Smith wrote: > >> >> There is more to the picture. >> >> About 17 years ago I found out the UofA was charging foreign students >> 95% of the cost of their education. That means the American tax payer >> is paying the difference. I do not know if this has been corrected or >> is actually worse. >> >> In one of my earlier posts I wrote that most of this technology was >> created in the USA by tax payer dollars. >> >> Then add in the remittance. It is my understanding most of these >> H1B's will live very frugal lifestyles while sending some of there >> earnings back to the home land. That hurts our economy. >> >> And if the H1B has any children while here, the child is a citizen. >> Then with chain migration the H1B visa holder's child who is a citizen >> can now have his/her family (extended) emigrated. >> >> And while the H1B visa holder is here, they can access any of the Gov. >> benefits that may apply, such as, providing home nursing care for >> their child. >> >> Oh, and if they bring any dependant children you will pay for their >> education, health care, etc. >> >> In a nutshell, you and your famtrainily paid for the tech, you may >> have subsidised their education, you may pay for their health care and >> other government benefits, educate their children, and more while your >> wages go down or in the case of McDonalds you might lose your job >> altogether. >> http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/09/18/mcdonalds-hires-foreign-h-1bs-fires-70-american-accounting-staff/ >> >> If there is a shortage of tech workers then way not figure out a way >> to train some people? >> >> If there is a shortage why is that? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 2016-12-07 07:18, George Toft wrote: >>> Jumping a little late . . >>> "So what if they get paid $10-$20k lower annual salaries?" <-- not >>> even close where I work. How about $60-80K lower? >>> My employer pays Tata Consulting $66K/year for DBA's. They keep 1/3 >>> so the H1B worker gets $44K. That's $22/hr - soon to be just double >>> minimum wage. This H1B worker usually comes with a Master's Degree >>> in >>> Computer Science or similar. >>> Find me one American with a Graduate Degree in Science willing to >>> work >>> for $22/hr. Yes, the struggle is real to find talent [that will work >>> for peanuts]. Almost everyone I know makes more than that, except >>> those in the fast-food industry. So where's the incentive to get a >>> degree? >>> I call it "exploitation." >>> Regards, >>> George Toft >>> On 11/8/2016 10:46 AM, David Schwartz wrote: >>>> More propaganda from right-wing pro-corporate anti-American talking >>>> heads about a topic they are ill-informed about. >>>> (Most Americans have no clue about US immigraion laws.) >>>> The recent Defense Appropriations Budget opened the floodgates to >>>> H-1B visas, thanks to non-stop lobbying from large US tech firms >>>> like Microsoft, Oracle, Apple, Dell, etc. >>>> I saw something a while back on cable channel that covers congress, >>>> and it was a public meeting of some sort about H-1B issues. >>>> Representatives from Microsoft, HP, and some huge consulting firm. >>>> One interesting thing they all agreed upon was that their budget for >>>> prosecuting each H-1B visa was $50k. This was ONLY for the legal >>>> fees! Then there was salary, benefits, relocation, and later on the >>>> legal fees and relocation expenses for their family members. >>>> Forget about annual salaries for a minute, which I don’t believe >>>> are really that much lower for people residing here in America and >>>> awaiting permanent residency (green cards). >>>> Here’s what job offers for US Citizens would look like if they >>>> were comparable to H-1B offers: >>>> * >>>> $50k hiring bonus (used for legal fees) >>>> * >>>> Full relocation (from overseas, way more expensive than even across >>>> country in USA) >>>> * >>>> Guaranteed job for 6-10 years (how long it takes for green cards to >>>> issue) >>>> * >>>> Guaranteed on-the-job training for whatever new projects these >>>> people are destined to fill during their 6-10 year tenure >>>> * >>>> Full relocation to other cities that might have projects these >>>> people can fill to keep employed >>>> * >>>> Tacit agreement to never complain, never file any kind of labor >>>> actions or lawsuits against the company for any reason at all >>>> So what if they get paid $10-$20k lower annual salaries? >>>> Would YOU accept a job with these “benefits” for a slightly >>>> lower salary like this??? >>>> -David Schwartz >>>>> On Nov 8, 2016, at 10:07 AM, Keith Smith >>>>> wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> While at the polls I talked with a man running for Chandler City >>>>> Council who told me the H1B Visa was necessary because there are >>>>> not enough qualified Americans to fill those positions. >>>>> I do not agree. And if it is true then why, for example, is there >>>>> no Microsoft University that finds those with the talent and help >>>>> develop them into the qualified employee they are looking for? It >>>>> is my understanding M$ is one of the biggest users of the H1B Visa >>>>> program. >>>>> This is an example of there not being an shortage. -->> McDonald's >>>>> lays off 70 American accountants from Ohio and gives their jobs to >>>>> foreign workers as part of cost-cutting exercise >>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3800381/McDonald-s-lays-70-American-accountants-Ohio-gives-jobs-foreign-workers-cost-cutting-measure.html >>>>> [1] >>>>> — Keith Smith >>>>> --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss >>>>> mailing list – PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, >>>>> unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [2] >>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>> Links: >>> ------ >>> [1] >>> https://u2206659.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/click?upn=tzJbcg2o-2FNh3kfIF32sRUZ3KsE0V-2BQQrEXAyVDkZHcUy34DGikx-2F-2FrzJlg9gPr5sgRKhPChSITXAyENVINiHGotNto-2BxEe4aUwuIq7v5xHKeUKqW3qfKSs6MHK9MXWoWqm-2FS37JTSqDixivqIaixnI7r0hC4YLbr4nEeT0PZq3RL4QfjxO6g6VuDcjSd6OMriMV7I5OpJnOBI1YJu997dw-3D-3D_6lpMB7VLnN-2Fj9-2FEErg8-2F-2BMBpb5QxlByTgv2M3fbWD9ebvC-2BWrN3h7jImK8EVWYBegWsuA7zh3riD0qMxgE7DRTo9-2FBOBoEQyUGWhIKKVZx3cbKSxNEvGtTyQod3InADu6n7QXrjzecHph-2B7-2Bh3qSUqc-2BYQkO8ue2cqbHSR-2FVO5yc-2BIhnZm9WdQHAdhbSWYHINqUHwqHEP1FSMMwyWntpkoRfz-2BcG6qdDBJwu0dy-2BGqw-3D >>> [2] >>> https://u2206659.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/click?upn=5DvWGaZUY8Sh5aRLWfQTKYiRLVzunonVk948p8WIzMe-2FXlJ9Cta8w8U9xoku9LrUSHNMJbSd3ZEwH-2BqnW2UHlA-3D-3D_6lpMB7VLnN-2Fj9-2FEErg8-2F-2BMBpb5QxlByTgv2M3fbWD9ebvC-2BWrN3h7jImK8EVWYBegWsuA7zh3riD0qMxgE7DRaykA0zAwuCdFyT8m1bapnhv0-2BDMBuitwiXbVyXCP-2F-2FXk9ecUSWuOftlOJLEht32Cs3dRkT-2FkUGbFKwUVE52CgdrlEHopOV8g4EIcZc0yxcNDIwmgkCjVI-2BKG-2FG6mtEMTuUleHBjQAhB4w8dSqFBqXI-3D >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >> -- >> Keith Smith >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- Keith Smith --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss