Scroll. On 2016-08-24 21:14, Victor D Odhner wrote: > I retired from my *nix work early 2013 and have left technical > projects for people activities. I have used a Macbook Pro since then, > and love it for portability and ruggedness - yay SSD!, I've fumbled it > a few times when running, once on concrete, keeps on ticking. I have > not been a developer in that environment, yet have noted several > little breaks in compatibility that could trip you up. I'm sure there > are web sites discussing that. > > I still visit my mint/mate desktop periodically as my "real home." I > also use a Mac Mini at church running music apps, and that was a great > and affordable choice. > > We have bought the extended warranty and I enjoyed several > consultations at the Genius Bar, for other Macs in the family; now > those are mostly replaced by Windows boxes, largely second hand. (I > use Computers&? -- "Computers And Questions" -- on Tatum south of > Bell, true geeks who give solid service on not-new boxes for not-rich > clients.) > > Remember that Mac is a culture, designed for people with a twitter > attention span. Apple cares not at all about making this work with > other brands. Like M$ and Google, they want to own you. They nag you > to take new OS updates, adding features for better one-ness with all > your other Apple toys (I have none) and possibly breaking > geek-critical functions. And remember how Motorola users were > abandoned when they switched to Intel. I wrote a research paper on Apple in about 1989. That was when I learned Apple had twice failed to be backward compatible during upgrades. That and the cost kept me away from Apple way back then. > > So while a Macbook *is* great in a lot of ways, doing nice glossy > things and looking a lot like home when you're on the command line, > you might want to keep a Linux system warmed up to host some basic > functions that Apple can't make money on and therefore won't mind > screwing up. > > Good luck. > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Eric Oyen > Date:2016/08/24 20:22 (GMT-07:00) > To: Main PLUG discussion list > > Subject: Re: MacBook > > who was screaming that the post was irrelevant? I certainly wasn't. :) > > At the end of the day, Linux still needs a lot of work to be > considered to be a viable desktop production environment. > > can you get quicken for linux? what about Peachtree? How about a full > office suite that can do the same things that MS office can do? what > about some of the other mainstream office and production apps? are > there many equivalents or direct replacements? THis is the primary > problem I have seen with linux over the years. great OS support, but > lousy where it counts. > > -eric > > On Aug 24, 2016, at 5:24 PM, James Dugger wrote: > >> Short answer: Regarding Business productivity - My advice go with >> the Macbook Pro. Also I believe you can get a 13-inch with 16GB and >> a 500GB SSD for less than $2k. >> >> I switched from Microsoft to Linux on all servers and desktops in my >> former business only to switch the desktops to Apple products from >> Linux. Linux just doesn't have parody in new application >> implementations on the desktop where it mattered. And I haven't met >> a business owner yet who was willing to hang out in Linux until >> someone got around to making it work. >> >> Regarding the cost - My experience is the any of the professional >> line laptops in any brand end up with a unit cost of use less than >> their cheaper counterparts. The MacBook Pro is no different and is >> comparably priced to any of these lines when you spec the stuff >> inside. >> >> MacBook Pro is the developers choice because at any price it is the >> only product on which you can easily build a development environment >> for any of the other environments. If your going to spend $2k on a >> laptop it better work in all of the possible environments in which >> may need to develop. >> >> A question was asked regarding the relevance of posting this to a >> Linux list. How about this - I love Linux and develop products that >> are used in the tens of thousands of Linux instances in my company >> everyday... but I could write a book about how frustrating it is >> that I don't have the option to have Linux as a viable OS option on >> the desktop in a business use case, ironically in a company that is >> central to the use of Linux in an industry. >> >> On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Eric Oyen >> wrote: >> >> yes, as my old 2007 whitebook can attest. unfortunately, the >> software and some of the apps are no longer supported and getting >> anything newer on here just isn't going to happen. where does this >> leave me? well, stuck on old hardware that is becoming less and less >> useful as apps and web design make it harder to cope. At some point, >> I just might decide to put paid to OS X lion and do a full linux >> install on here. >> >> SOme of the features of OS X that I will miss: >> keychains (this password vault has been a lifesaver) >> apps that "just work" without having to tweak or prod. >> easy to use interface for the blind (voiceover) >> and just about anything else not covered by the above. >> >> SOme things I am looking forward to as I transition to Linux on this >> device: >> upgraded applications capable of new and interesting things >> support for apps that use GTK, perl, ruby, and other >> scripts/programming languages that can be easily adapted for the >> blind (hell, all the libraries to do this are built in). >> enhanced performance (linux still has the lowest overhead of any OS >> I know of other than OpenBSD). >> Security (windows still can't touch this!). >> access to utilities and applications not readily available on other >> platforms. >> OPEN SORCE >> mostly free (or low cost through donation) - I am willing to pay if >> my budget supports it. >> >> now, I have been a long time user of Linux (really since almost its >> beginnings) and also a longtime member of PLUG (one of the original >> steering committee members here!). >> >> Still, there is something to be said for an OS/machine that "just >> works". I just wish apple would hop on the Linux bandwagon and offer >> an alternative OS for those times when OS X seems too bloated. >> >> -Eric (founder of the Technomage Guild) >> >> On Aug 24, 2016, at 9:25 AM, Alan Dayley wrote: >> >> My younger son is still using my five year old 15" MacBook Pro. It >> has no problems. I replaced the hard drive with a Samsung SSD about >> four years ago only because I wanted the improved performance. The >> whole system as zero problems. >> >> My older son is now using my four year old 13" MacBook Air. It has >> had zero problems except that the battery doesn't hold a charge for >> more than 2 hours any more. Normal battery wear. That notebook spent >> four years traveling all over with me, almost every week in my bag >> going and coming from somewhere. The only physical issue is a few of >> the keyboard key tops are scratched down from my fingernails. >> >> I have run Ubuntu and Mint on both of the systems without issue. >> Though I confess to spending most of my time in OS X. >> >> I now have a four month old 13" MacBook Air. Has double the RAM of >> my previous unit. It helps. Buy as much RAM as you can. >> >> Apple hardware, in my experience, is both beautiful and durable. >> >> Alan >> >> On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Anon Anon >> wrote: >> >> I have a MacBook pro I use at work. It's a Mac. It'll work. It's a >> bastardized bsd box. >> >> I haven't turned mine off in months. If you need a Mac, buy it. >> >> Why not try running mac os in a virtual box machine to try it out >> before hand? >> >> On Aug 24, 2016 08:54, "Keith Smith" >> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I'm strongly considering buying a Macbook pro. >> >> I'm a LAMP (PHP) developer. Currently I use Mint on a Dell. Both >> laptop and desktop. I do have a Dell laptop that runs M$ 10. Was a >> bad move upgrading from M$7 to M$10... another story for another >> day. >> >> The reason for my desired move is I want something that just works. >> I do not have the time nor do I have the expertise to maintain Linux >> Mint when there is an issue. For instance Dropbox does not launch >> correctly. I have a work around, but do not want to have to figure >> this stuff out. JoinMe.com [1] does no work completely on my Linux >> desktop and I need it so I use my Windows laptop. I can watch but I >> cannot become the presenter. >> >> Moving to Mac is purely a business decision. >> >> Up to this point I have bought cheap on sale Dell. >> >> I also need Virtualbox because I need to develop using PHP 5.6 and >> PHP 7. >> >> In doing my research I have narrowed my search to the Macbook Pro >> 13.3 or 15.4 inch models. I'm leaning towards the 15.4 since it has >> 16GB of RAM. I suspect with the SSD drives these Macs have to sing. >> >> My shock is the $2000 price tag. Yikes. I'm used to cheap dell >> hardware that I pay $300 to $400 for on sale. I can see Best Buy is >> selling the MacBook at a slightly discounted price. >> >> If I can be just a little more productive the Mac will pay for >> itself in no time. >> >> The other thing I like about the Pro is it allows for driving two >> external monitors. At the resolution the Pro provides that should be >> a lot of real estate give the laptop monitor makes 3. The only >> downside I am aware of is with the external monitors the refresh >> rate drops to 30Hz. I think someone on this list brought that up and >> they did not like that low of a refresh rate. >> >> I think I would find iMovie and Pages useful. And I could add an >> iPhone to the mix and utilize those benefits. >> >> If I buy the Mackbook pro 15.4 inch with 16GB of RAM what would be >> a reasonable life expectancy in a production environment? What would >> I be able to reasonably expect working it 12+ hours a day, day in >> day? >> >> Any and every thought is much appreciated. >> >> -- >> Keith Smith >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [2] >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [2] > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [2] > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [2] > > -- > > James > > LINKEDIN [3] > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [2] > > > Links: > ------ > [1] http://JoinMe.com/ > [2] http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > [3] http://www.linkedin.com/pub/james-h-dugger/15/64b/74a/ > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- Keith Smith --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss