I briefly took this discussion with Michael offlist. Anyway, the system seemed to behave itself better with kde minimal, but still locked up once. I tried xfce again and fought with it to configure the menu like I wanted. http://wiki.xfce.org/howto/customize-menu in case anyone's interested. Thanks to this depression the politicians say is we're not in the middle of, I had to move to America's bug factory (Kentucky). Since money is tight I'll have to make do with the card I have now for a bit longer. I'd like to thank all of you who have helped me figure out what the problem is. I'll keep these emails so when I can get another card, I'll have some ideas about where to get one. Try to imagine living in Lukeville and not being able to make a quick trip to Fry's or your neighborhood computer store on a whim. It's two hours later here so I'm off to bed. Derek On 11/13/2011 08:10 PM, Michael Butash wrote: > And let the list know you've defused what you could. :) > > -mb > > > On 11/13/2011 07:51 PM, Derek Trotter wrote: >> I'll keep this in mind when I get some spare cash. I tried uninstalling >> kde and installing xfce. This worked, but I couldn't find an easy way to >> edit the menu in xfce. I looked around in synaptic and stumbled onto >> kde-minimal. I tried that and so far it's not giving me any trouble. >> >> Thanks for your help and suggestions. >> >> Derek >> >> On 11/12/2011 02:50 PM, Michael Butash wrote: >>> I'd stay with nvidia honestly, i have an ati currently and aside from >>> the fact it supports 6 monitors, it rather sucks (drivers me thinks). >>> >>> Check out newegg, I had a friend buy a newer chipset in agp from there >>> about 3 months ago for an old box - like a gt220 or something for 30 >>> bucks. Those should be ok. >>> >>> -mb >>> >>> >>> On 11/12/2011 02:28 PM, Derek Trotter wrote: >>>> I agree that getting rid of the card is the best solution. Money is >>>> short right now, but getting rid of that card is something I'll do as >>>> soon as possible. The motherboard has one agp slot and several pci >>>> slots, but no pci-e slots. What video cards would you suggest? >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> On 11/12/2011 01:20 PM, Michael Butash wrote: >>>>> Ah, umm... I think "plasma" is their equivalent if i remember right - >>>>> i'd see if kdm has a "classic" mode too to disable any direct >>>>> rendering. Sorry, I haven't used kde in a good 5 years to know. >>>>> >>>>> Honestly, you might be money ahead to replace it. Honestly, those >>>>> 8400's are a problem and a half from what I'd found. >>>>> >>>>> -mb >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 11/12/2011 01:03 PM, Derek Trotter wrote: >>>>>> I don't have gnome installed. I've got Kubuntu, but I'll try and >>>>>> figure it out. thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/12/11, Derek Trotter wrote: >>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/12/2011 1:48, Michael Butash wrote: >>>>>>>> If you run in "ubuntu classic" or more extreme, failsafe x >>>>>>>> mode, you >>>>>>>> can avoid the gpu being enabled immediately. That's how I came to >>>>>>>> figure out the gpu was wonky on my laptop, only after I enabled >>>>>>>> compiz >>>>>>>> did the display freak. When you go to login in gdm or lightdm, >>>>>>>> select >>>>>>>> it there. That'll cripple compiz from rendering the desktop >>>>>>>> against >>>>>>>> the gpu. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you get that far, try running glgears and see if it crashes - >>>>>>>> that'll invoke the gpu. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -mb >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/11/2011 11:45 PM, Derek Trotter wrote: >>>>>>>>> Is there any way to make linux not hit the gpu? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/11/2011 21:54, Michael Butash wrote: >>>>>>>>>> XP's desktop doesn't hit the gpu - this started in the redheaded >>>>>>>>>> bastard known as vista. Most xp functions and codecs don't >>>>>>>>>> either. >>>>>>>>>> Linux will by default now with compiz, video rendering, lots of >>>>>>>>>> things. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -mb >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/2011 09:49 PM, Derek Trotter wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> This is something I hadn't heard before. Thanks for letting me >>>>>>>>>>> know. If >>>>>>>>>>> this is the problem, there's one thing I don't understand. Why >>>>>>>>>>> do I >>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>> have any problems when the machine is running XP? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/2011 21:28, Michael Butash wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> You might be dealing with hardware issues. I've not seen that >>>>>>>>>>>> kind of >>>>>>>>>>>> problem in my laptop with that chip under solid use for 4 >>>>>>>>>>>> years >>>>>>>>>>>> until >>>>>>>>>>>> it gave up the ghost. I had an 8400 in my dell laptop, and >>>>>>>>>>>> those had >>>>>>>>>>>> serious and well known (read: class-action lawsuit) on that >>>>>>>>>>>> chipset >>>>>>>>>>>> for defective chips. BGA chip use began that generation for >>>>>>>>>>>> nvidia >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> ati, and they're notorious horrible at popping off and losing >>>>>>>>>>>> conductivity also into the 9600 series. Read about a like >>>>>>>>>>>> issue, >>>>>>>>>>>> something called RRoD in xbox360 or YLoD in ps3's for the same >>>>>>>>>>>> reason... >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> When my laptop began dying from this, 2d desktop would work >>>>>>>>>>>> great >>>>>>>>>>>> until something hit the gpu, and artifacting would begin >>>>>>>>>>>> instantly >>>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>>> still *kinda* work. Sounds like playing a video is hitting >>>>>>>>>>>> vdpau >>>>>>>>>>>> (most >>>>>>>>>>>> video engines default to using this if available, thus >>>>>>>>>>>> hitting gpu >>>>>>>>>>>> shaders, and locking. Desktop compositing probably likewise >>>>>>>>>>>> causes >>>>>>>>>>>> this with complexity due to hitting gpu. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> That kind of hard lock could be driver related, but sketchy >>>>>>>>>>>> hardware >>>>>>>>>>>> is often the cause too, especially with that genre of gpu. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -mb >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/2011 01:52 PM, Stephen wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> If you want to try an alternate Graphics card i do have some >>>>>>>>>>>>> AGP >>>>>>>>>>>>> cards >>>>>>>>>>>>> floating about still. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 11:23 AM, Derek Trotter >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good idea, but the motherboard does not have a video card >>>>>>>>>>>>>> onboard. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The bios >>>>>>>>>>>>>> does have a setting to set the primary video adapter as AGP >>>>>>>>>>>>>> or PCI. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's >>>>>>>>>>>>>> set to PCI. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for taking the time to write your suggestion. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/2011 07:44 AM, Stephen wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Something to consider in some CMOS you can have settings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choose a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> preferred video card, and sometimes on-board video is not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabled >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fully. some Intel boards are notorious for this. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look in your settings and see what you can find. this may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> help. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one helluva time with PCI-e graphics and Ubuntu for a while >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> back in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 8.xx days with this. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 4:38 PM, Derek >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trotter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It happens whether or not I'm playing a video. Most of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> videos I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> watch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are not flash videos. They're mostly avi files with xvid, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mpeg1 or mpeg2. I used vlc to play them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/10/2011 16:32, Dazed_75 wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of your issues sound like they happen when playing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> videos. Is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> true >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or are there other times as well? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as what else it could be, there could be lots of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possibilities but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they might be hard to track down to elements that are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> common to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ubuntu, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kubuntu, and Fedora. If it is localized to playing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> videos, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> certainly be suspicious of the command line based >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> underpinnings the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> might use. Oh, and are the videos Flash based or not? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you are coming to the meeting tonight and can come >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> restaurant >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after, someone there may be able to help. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 4:21 PM, Derek >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trotter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/10/2011 16:10, Dazed_75 wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Try looking to see if you are using the open source >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nvidia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> driver >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or the proprietary one. I am not sure where that is in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kubuntu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> menus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but look for something in System, or Administration >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> name >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably something about Hardware. It should run a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> program >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see if there are proprietary drivers you might choose to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I first installed the os I noticed the problem with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> driver it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> came with. I checked and found where it suggested a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proprietary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> driver >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> offered one other. I chose the one that was recommended. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The bug >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> showed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> itself with the driver that came with the install and the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> installed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I AM curious though if you have some particular reason >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suspecting it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is due to you having that video card since a screen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> freeze >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something above the driver level. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've had that card for about 2 years while the machine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running XP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't have this problem. It only showed itself after I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> installed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> latest Ubuntu and Kubuntu version as well as the other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> latest >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> linux >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flavors >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned earlier. Fedora 15 was the worst. It would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> freeze >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> screen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as soon as I started playing a video. The others would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> let me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> watch at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least for a few minutes before the screen froze. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also if it's not a driver problem, what else could it be? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Derek >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trotter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have an NVIDIA Geforce 8400 GS card that plugs into a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PCI >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slot. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no problems with it in XP, but when I installed Kubuntu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 11.10 I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem. Occasionally the screen freezes. I can't switch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> console. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also I can't kill the x server. I know the machine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> completely >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> locked up because when I have audio playing, it keeps >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> playing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the screen has frozen. None of the usual means to shut >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The only thing I can do is hit the reset button, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> press the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> power >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> switch for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> several seconds until the machine shuts off, or pull the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plug. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> encountered this on Ubuntu 11.10, Kubuntu 11.10, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mepis 11 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fedora >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 15. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> installed the LTS verson of Kubuntu 10 and haven't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problems >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone have any idea what's going on or how to fix >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> settings: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dazed_75 a.k.a. Larry >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> certain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Thomas Jefferson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> settings: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> settings: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dazed_75 a.k.a. Larry >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> certain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasions, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I wish it always to be kept alive. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Thomas Jefferson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> settings: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> settings: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - >>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - >>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss