I'd just like to point out that ruby was originally intended to be a replacement for perl, primarily focused on being used for sys admin type scripting, not a web language. I for one love ruby and do essentially no web programming, I just can't live without the binding operator ( ~= ) and perl's regular expressions, but love ruby's syntax ( and who wouldn't love something like '5.times { puts "Ruby is the greatest!" } On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 7:34 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: > On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 7:27 PM, Michael Havens wrote: >> website development seems like the only thing I would want to do so Ruby it >> is! > > >   and that is the typical story with Ruby developers...  ;) > >  -jmz > > >> Unfortunately, it isn't on my Ubuntuu install. When  I tried to start it >> it told me to apt-get it. No internet connection. >> >> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 7:12 PM, Joseph Sinclair >> wrote: >>> >>> Let's not devolve into a favorite language war.  There are situations >>> where Python is a great language choice, and situations where it's terrible. >>> Every language choice comes down to what you want to accomplish. >>>  Some languages are good for rapid development of websites (Ruby, PHP, >>> etc...). >>>  Some languages are good for systems management scripts (Python, Perl, >>> etc...). >>>  Some languages are good for developing large web systems intended to be >>> maintained for years (Java, others). >>>  Some languages are good for developing packaged COTS software (C++, Java, >>> etc...). >>>  Some languages are good for system software and embedded devices (C, C++, >>> etc...). >>>  Many languages are most useful in very specific niches (Forth, Lisp, ADA, >>> XSLT, LOLCode, Objective-C, etc...) >>> >>> Most languages have multiple areas where they work well, and multiple >>> areas where they're not so good. >>> What exactly you want to accomplish in your software development should >>> drive the language choice, although it rarely does. >>> >>> No one particular language is the best choice for learning how to write >>> software; each type of software development will drive a different choice of >>> the best "first" language to learn. >>> >>> Mike, you need to specify your goal more precisely in order for the >>> community here to give you a useful recommendation that will help you best >>> accomplish that goal. >>> >>> ==Joseph++ >>> >>> Kevin Fries wrote: >>> > Wow, now I know why it is so hard to hire people that are competent! >>> >  Python is fun, not right, but fun... Thats your argument?  If you want to >>> > know why we refuse to hire Python programmers at our company, I can give you >>> > real facts on why you should not use that language as a place to learn... >>> > Not opinions. >>> > >>> > Kevin >>> > >>> > Sent from my Nokia phone >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: Joshua Zeidner >>> > Sent:  02/20/2010 4:17:23 PM >>> > Subject:  Re: >>> > >>> > On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Joshua Zeidner >>> > wrote: >>> >>  Seems like we have a lot of opinions here.  Here is a paper from ACM >>> >> on the use of Python in for teaching programming. >>> >> >>> >>    http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=114017 >>> > >>> >   sorry wrong link: >>> >  http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1140123.1140177 >>> > >>> >        -jmz >>> > >>> >>  -jmz >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Austin William Wright >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> Alan Dayley wrote: >>> >>>> Python. >>> >>>> >>> >>> Absolutely NOT PYTHON. It breaks the first two rules of programming, >>> >>> the >>> >>> assignment operator (=) assigns values to a variable, and always >>> >>> ignore >>> >>> whitespace. Well my first two rules, at least. Plus it sucks at >>> >>> consistent use of object-oriented programming. >>> >>> >>> >>> If you *really* need a general-purpose programming language, look at >>> >>> Ruby, it's slightly more well behaved. Slightly. I would recommend >>> >>> Javascript, it's a major programming language, and you can run it in >>> >>> your web browser with literally nothing to install. Plus Javascript is >>> >>> closely related to XML and HTML, while not programming languages, are >>> >>> markup languages (a way of storing data) that is becoming very >>> >>> important >>> >>> to know for many things. Though designed for the web, many of these >>> >>> things are finding themselves become part of everyday computing, >>> >>> especially XML. For these things, http://www.w3schools.com/ is >>> >>> popular. >>> >>> >>> >>> Any scripting language might be a good start at learning about >>> >>> if/then/else logic, but none of these languages are going to teach how >>> >>> computers really *process* or *store* information on the inside (how >>> >>> the >>> >>> CPU executes the program or how variables are stored in memory), or >>> >>> for >>> >>> that matter write an actual interactive computer program, you will >>> >>> need >>> >>> a real language like C or C++. After learning something like >>> >>> Javascript >>> >>> you will find C surprisingly limited in functionality if you try and >>> >>> do >>> >>> things the same way, especially variable-length variables like strings >>> >>> and arrays. Keep that fact in the back of your head for when, if, you >>> >>> attempt C/C++. >>> >>> >>> >>> Whatever you do, Google " tutorial" should bring up something good. >>> >>> In the way of books, however, you can't miss ones from O'Reilly ( >>> >>> http://oreilly.com/ ), they are jade/teal and have a random animal on >>> >>> the cover. >>> >>> >>> >>> Austin Wright. >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >>> >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> >>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> http://home.joshuazeidner.com/ >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >> >> >> -- >> :-)~MIKE~(-: >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> > > > > -- > http://home.joshuazeidner.com/ > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss