I like c as you can find its basics in so many other languages. I also like php because it transitions well and offers a link to oop but its a dirty evil language that allows too many bad habbits. I do think if you go the c route or c++ it gives you a ton of paths to branch out On 2/20/10, Alan Dayley wrote: > Every language has strengths and weaknesses. Some one wanted the > strengths and so designed the language for that reason. Python is > appropriate for many things and not appropriate for many others. So > is any other language. > > Mike wanted a suggestion for learning a language. Python is an easy > language to start with because: > - the learner can see results quickly for encouragement. > - there is an excellent community to support the learner. > - there is a large body of libraries (modules) to add interesting > functionality quickly. > - there is a large body of documentation, tutorials, etc. available > online and in print. > > Does using Python cause bad habits that may hinder the learner when > attempting to use other languages or creating other types of programs? > Probably, depending on the next language and application. The same > can be said for any other programming language. > > For example, my career has mostly involved developing embedded > executables in low resource environments. Only recently has any > object-oriented compiler reached a point where coding such systems > using OO principles makes sense. Sometimes, in low resource target > environments, all kinds of taboo coding behaviors are necessary. > > So, if Python is not appropriate in your experience, which language or > languages would you suggest for a first-time, self-learner? Why? > > BTW, there are several "How to think like a computer scientist" books, > each centered on a different language. They are very good. So, if > Python is not the one, go with Java or C++ > (http://www.greenteapress.com/) > > Alan > > On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 6:29 PM, Kevin Fries wrote: >> Wow, now I know why it is so hard to hire people that are competent! >>  Python is fun, not right, but fun... Thats your argument?  If you want to >> know why we refuse to hire Python programmers at our company, I can give >> you real facts on why you should not use that language as a place to >> learn... Not opinions. >> >> Kevin >> >> Sent from my Nokia phone >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Zeidner >> Sent:  02/20/2010 4:17:23 PM >> Subject:  Re: >> >> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Joshua Zeidner >> wrote: >>>  Seems like we have a lot of opinions here.  Here is a paper from ACM >>> on the use of Python in for teaching programming. >>> >>>    http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=114017 >> >>  sorry wrong link:  http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1140123.1140177 >> >>       -jmz >> >>> >>>  -jmz >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Austin William Wright >>> wrote: >>>> Alan Dayley wrote: >>>>> Python. >>>>> >>>> Absolutely NOT PYTHON. It breaks the first two rules of programming, the >>>> assignment operator (=) assigns values to a variable, and always ignore >>>> whitespace. Well my first two rules, at least. Plus it sucks at >>>> consistent use of object-oriented programming. >>>> >>>> If you *really* need a general-purpose programming language, look at >>>> Ruby, it's slightly more well behaved. Slightly. I would recommend >>>> Javascript, it's a major programming language, and you can run it in >>>> your web browser with literally nothing to install. Plus Javascript is >>>> closely related to XML and HTML, while not programming languages, are >>>> markup languages (a way of storing data) that is becoming very important >>>> to know for many things. Though designed for the web, many of these >>>> things are finding themselves become part of everyday computing, >>>> especially XML. For these things, http://www.w3schools.com/ is popular. >>>> >>>> Any scripting language might be a good start at learning about >>>> if/then/else logic, but none of these languages are going to teach how >>>> computers really *process* or *store* information on the inside (how the >>>> CPU executes the program or how variables are stored in memory), or for >>>> that matter write an actual interactive computer program, you will need >>>> a real language like C or C++. After learning something like Javascript >>>> you will find C surprisingly limited in functionality if you try and do >>>> things the same way, especially variable-length variables like strings >>>> and arrays. Keep that fact in the back of your head for when, if, you >>>> attempt C/C++. >>>> >>>> Whatever you do, Google " tutorial" should bring up something good. >>>> In the way of books, however, you can't miss ones from O'Reilly ( >>>> http://oreilly.com/ ), they are jade/teal and have a random animal on >>>> the cover. >>>> >>>> Austin Wright. > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > -- Sent from my mobile device James Finstrom Rhino Equipment Corp. http://rhinoequipment.com ~ http://postug.com Phone: 1-877-RHINO-T1 ~ FAX: +1 (480) 961-1826 Twitter: http://twitter.com/rhinoequipment IP: guest@asterisk.rhinoequipment.com --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss