On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 6:05 PM, keith smith wrote: > > > > The national guard incident you are referring to was a government mistake.  I suspect you are writing about Kent State. > > As an ex-police officer and and ex-Arizona National Guardsman I can say using the national guard to deal with a demonstration was a bad idea. > > I suspect most states do little or no training on how to deal with these types of issues.  I was active duty with the Marine Corps and after being discharged from active duty I joint the Arizona Army National Guard. I received a lot of training of which maybe 1 or 2% of it had to do with civil disobedience.  The other 98 or 99% of my training was combat training. > > As a police officer I spent all my time dealing with the civilian population.  Much different training and response to problems. > > The government should never deploy the National Guard, reserve forces, or Active Duty personnel against American civilians. you do know that Posse Comitatus has essentially been repealed? http://public.cq.com/public/20061201_homeland.html -jmz > > > ------------------------ > Keith Smith > > > --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Craig White wrote: > >> From: Craig White >> Subject: Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in PHX >> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" >> Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 4:39 PM >> On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 16:08 -0700, >> Lyle Tuttle wrote: >> > At 03:05 PM 8/2/2009, you wrote: >> > > On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 14:42 -0700, keith smith >> wrote: >> > > > Some think deregulation was a factor. >> Bailing out thosw who made >> > > bad >> > > > decisions is even worse. >> > > > >> > > > We should have let GM and Chrysler go >> bankrupt at the get go.  We >> > > > should have held those accountable for risky >> loans accountable not >> > > > bailed them out. >> > > ---- >> > > the bailout of Chrysler and GM was to save the >> health care benefits >> > > and >> > > pensions of the retired and workers. Why should a >> government exist >> > > except to benefit the people? >> > > >> > > the bailout of banks and investment houses was >> simply to prevent a >> > > huge >> > > depression. We surely haven't seen the bottom of >> this recession and >> > > who >> > > knows how many more jobs & homes will be lost >> when it is done. While >> > > it >> > > goes against everything we all think is proper, >> bailing out some of >> > > the >> > > companies that caused this nightmare may have >> been the only option >> > > to >> > > prevent a complete meltdown of the economy. It >> still may come to >> > > pass. >> > >> > Government CREATED these issues above -- have you >> considered that? >> ---- >> that's absurd - make an argument for this assertion please >> ---- >> > > > Wait til you social security disappears and >> we move into hyper >> > > > inflation. >> > > ---- >> > > social security is solid if our government is >> solid. It is funded >> > > into >> > > 2040 and those who are calling it endangered do >> so for political >> > > reasons. >> > >> > If that is true, why are they now wanting to limit >> [change the rules] >> > Medicare/Medicaid - same thing only different....and >> you call SS OK -- >> > what if you are 20 years old now -- will SS be there >> for you? >> ---- >> there is plenty of time to correct a shortfall in Social >> Security by >> 2040. This is a perfect example of a government program >> that has worked >> very well. >> >> Medicare is obvious...the costs are skyrocketing. I suppose >> you can >> twist things to make it fit any result you want to get but >> none of the >> politicians want to kill Medicare. They don't have the >> political will. >> Medicare is here to stay and it is a government run health >> plan...deal >> with it. >> ---- >> > > I seem to recall our own national guard shooting >> at people in this >> > > country who stood up against the government. I >> fail to see the >> > > difference here. >> > >> > The main difference [beside the numbers and the freq >> of occurance] was >> > that here, there was repercussion; in China not..... >> ---- >> did Ohio National Guardsman go to jail for shooting unarmed >> citizens? >> Did they lock up the commanders who told them to load their >> weapons with >> live rounds? >> >> cut me a break...what was the repercussion anyway? >> >> I can see that life is much simpler when one denies that >> our own >> government is spying on its citizens, torturing and >> murdering prisoners >> and lying to the public about the reasons for going to war >> and instead >> wants to point fingers at other countries. >> >> I can see that life is much simpler when we blame our own >> government for >> all of these things but we are our government and they are >> we. We allow >> them to do these things. >> >> Craig >> >> >> -- >> This message has been scanned for viruses and >> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is >> believed to be clean. >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail >> settings: >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss