again totally agree with you here, esp. with regards to 1) hyperinflation, 2) china. (btw- didn't you initially support the bailouts on this list?). You can buy and hold gold in small quantities with BuillionVault.com . The biggest problem we have will be China- if we break our promises regarding inflation with them anything could happen. -jmz On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 2:42 PM, keith smith wrote: > > > Some think deregulation was a factor.  Bailing out thosw who made bad decisions is even worse. > > We should have let GM and Chrysler go bankrupt at the get go.  We should have held those accountable for risky loans accountable not bailed them out. > > Yeas we have a problem.  And businesses are predatory by nature.  Nothing a few class action law suits can cure. > > We need the free market to find equilibrium and with government intervention we have an artificial prop. > > Hope it does not happen however there are people what are saying our economy is going to tank because of the government trying to intervene and correct the market. > > I will agree, some government is good.  I will also say we have a government that is way too large.  Maybe by as much as 85%. > > Wait til you social security disappears and we move into hyper inflation. > > I wish I could by a lot of gold. > > We have set ourselves up for failure.  China of all countries owns some 2 trillion in our national debt.  How does that help us?  It has much potential to hurt us. > > We are in bed with a country that kills people that stand up against the government. > > > > ------------------------ > Keith Smith > > > --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Craig White wrote: > >> From: Craig White >> Subject: Re: ****Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in PHX >> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" >> Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 2:27 PM >> On Sat, 2009-08-01 at 21:20 -0700, >> keith smith wrote: >> > If you are referring to the courts that is one thing >> the government >> > needs to do. >> > >> > Water >> > Sewer >> > Trash pickup >> > Streets >> > Police >> > Fire >> > Standing Army >> > and one or two other things. >> > >> > Everything else needs to be removed from the >> government. >> > >> > Using the courts to resolve a dispute is differently >> from the >> > government providing for our business needs. >> > >> > Free enterprise.  Do you think as a small >> business owner I am afforded >> > any protection under the law.  Not >> happening.  Only the big guys get >> > help from the government. >> > >> > I really have to get a few things done so i will sing >> off for now. >> > >> > Keep in mind I'm for small government and a free >> market. >> ---- >> the problem is that free market has now proven to be a >> disaster. The >> current economic mess is a direct result of deregulating >> things like the >> banks, Wall Street, etc. While the John Galt logic sounded >> pretty good, >> it simply didn't work and the great Ayn Rand disciple, >> Greenspan got it >> all wrong. We are paying the consequences for this now and >> will be >> paying even more consequences as the next wave of home and >> commercial >> property foreclosures ramp up, unemployment starts to climb >> again and >> more and more people's unemployment benefits expire. Free >> market is a >> great concept that simply doesn't work because corporate >> interests are >> predatory and irresponsible. >> >> The acknowledgment that essential government services >> listed above >> justifies the role of government and you want to argue that >> it should do >> no more. There is much more government should be >> doing...but they have >> abrogated their responsibilities in things like consumer >> protection. >> >> Government will always be a problem but no government is a >> worse problem >> considering the amount of people and the current trend of >> business >> practices. >> >> >> -- >> This message has been scanned for viruses and >> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is >> believed to be clean. >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail >> settings: >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss