It would be interesting to get a free market group together.

I'm moving back to Phoenix in the next 3 months or so.

Let's form a free market group.

------------------------
Keith Smith


--- On Sat, 8/1/09, Lyle Tuttle <L.tuttle@cox.net> wrote:

> From: Lyle Tuttle <L.tuttle@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in PHX
> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 9:17 PM
> 
>  
> Oh, I agree -- we should talk about that
> sometime....<G>
> 
> 
> At 08:12 PM 8/1/2009, you wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only problem
> is you have
> government in business.
> 
> 
> ------------------------
> 
> Keith Smith
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Lyle Tuttle <L.tuttle@cox.net>
> wrote:
> 
> 
> > From: Lyle Tuttle <L.tuttle@cox.net>
> 
> > Subject: Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in
> PHX
> 
> > To: "Main PLUG discussion list"
> <plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
> 
> > Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 7:58 PM
> 
> > 
> 
> >  
> 
> > The city of Surprise has moved into a new
> 
> > city hall complex,
> 
> > and are turning the old offices / building into a
> 
> > "start-up" or
> 
> > incubator for new or emerging businesses.
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > lyle tuttle
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > At 07:50 PM 8/1/2009, you wrote:
> 
> > 
> 
> > On Sat, Aug 1,
> 
> > 2009 at 6:50 PM,
> 
> > keith smith<klsmith2020@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > 
> 
> > >
> 
> > 
> 
> > >
> 
> > 
> 
> > > I think what is really missing from this equation
> is
> 
> > mentoring and
> 
> > training.
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> >   what I would like to see is some real
> support from
> 
> > AZ government
> 
> > to
> 
> > 
> 
> > help make tech companies feel welcome here. 
> This
> 
> > means:
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> >   1) making the valley a good place not only
> to build
> 
> > a company but
> 
> > to
> 
> > 
> 
> > build a *career*.  this means buy in from both
> sides
> 
> > of the
> 
> > equation.
> 
> > 
> 
> > I would like to see a bit more address at lower
> capital
> 
> > levels, but
> 
> > 
> 
> > that may prove to be difficult.  It seems that
> most
> 
> > existing
> 
> > concepts
> 
> > 
> 
> > are kind of stuck in the industrial model, where you
> build
> 
> > a factory
> 
> > 
> 
> > in a place with low taxes and hire low wage workers,
> but
> 
> > technology
> 
> > 
> 
> > requires high wage workers who demand a good thriving
> job
> 
> > market. 
> 
> > The
> 
> > 
> 
> > needs are quite different.  The biggest issue
> with
> 
> > starting a
> 
> > company
> 
> > 
> 
> > out here is finding people.  Where are all the
> 
> > people?  in
> 
> > CA.
> 
> > 
> 
> > because it has a good job market.  If we can
> outsource
> 
> > to India,
> 
> > we
> 
> > 
> 
> > sure as hell can outsource to Arizona.
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> >   2) setting up low cost legal structure and
> as you
> 
> > say mentoring
> 
> > to
> 
> > 
> 
> > really help stimulate technology development. 
> 
> > We've seen (at
> 
> > least
> 
> > 
> 
> > nominal) efforts in the past.  Why did they
> 
> > fail?  This means
> 
> > real and
> 
> > 
> 
> > adequate assistance in bringing concepts to production
> and
> 
> > market. 
> 
> > A
> 
> > 
> 
> > small investment in this area will yield returns in
> tax
> 
> > base and
> 
> > 
> 
> > property value by a factor of hundreds.  Arizona
> has
> 
> > the potential
> 
> > to
> 
> > 
> 
> > pick up a lot of this commercial activity because
> 
> > California is
> 
> > 
> 
> > currently set to become a tax strapped nightmare state
> to
> 
> > build your
> 
> > 
> 
> > business.  If AZ fails to see the opportunity
> here, we
> 
> > will lose
> 
> > out
> 
> > 
> 
> > big time.  Currently the budget proceedings are
> still
> 
> > in
> 
> > gridlock.
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> >   the mayor of Phoenix seems to have the
> right idea,
> 
> > he was
> 
> > suggesting
> 
> > 
> 
> > recently a green technology center near Phx
> center.  I
> 
> > think thats
> 
> > the
> 
> > 
> 
> > direction AZ needs to go.  -jmz
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > >
> 
> > 
> 
> > > I like the idea that folks are getting together
> to
> 
> > network. 
> 
> > This is a really cool idea.  Even for
> non-technical
> 
> > stuff like
> 
> > finding out how people deal with customers,
> contracting,
> 
> > book-keeping,
> 
> > ETC.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >
> 
> > 
> 
> > > ------------------------
> 
> > 
> 
> > > Keith Smith
> 
> > 
> 
> > >
> 
> > 
> 
> > >
> 
> > 
> 
> > > --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Joshua Zeidner
> 
> > <jjzeidner@gmail.com>
> 
> > wrote:
> 
> > 
> 
> > >
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> From: Joshua Zeidner
> <jjzeidner@gmail.com>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> Subject: Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to
> do in
> 
> > PHX
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> To: "Main PLUG discussion list"
> 
> > <plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 6:08 PM
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:09 PM,
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> Alan Dayley<alandd@consultpros.com>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> wrote:
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > Joshua,
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > I put all your replies together in one
> long
> 
> > document
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> and reread them.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > I am still confused a bit. 
> 
> > Enlightenment via
> 
> > email
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> rarely occurs.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > However, I really want to understand
> your
> 
> > position in
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> this discussion.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >  Let me summarize what I understand
> from
> 
> > your
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> replies.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > ---[Start my paraphasing of your
> 
> > comments]---
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > - There is a small group or groups of
> people
> 
> > who keep
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> spinning off
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > communities using tired marketing
> 
> > techniques. 
> 
> > This
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> results in blogs
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > but not true communities.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > - Some of these people cannot deal with
> 
> > existing
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> structure and the
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > efforts of the past.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > - These weak attempts do not articulate
> goals
> 
> > or
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> purpose well, if at all.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > - We must honestly look at criticism to
> learn
> 
> > and
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> improve.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > - These weak people need to address the
> 
> > efforts of the
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> past and
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > provide suggestions on how they can be
> 
> > improved upon.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > - Getting political support will
> provide
> 
> > legitimacy to
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> their efforts.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > - Phoenix will attract technology
> businesses
> 
> > because
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> of the relative
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > low cost and this will help improve
> things.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > - You have first hand experiences of
> weak,
> 
> > marketing
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> fronted,
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > community building efforts.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > - Many 'entrepreneurs' have
> grand
> 
> > ideas but get
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> nowhere with them
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > because they are not real businesses.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > - People at a co-working location or
> coffee
> 
> > shop will
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> not help you
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > with your business unless you pay them.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > - Most people at co-working started
> their one
> 
> > person
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> business after
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > being laid-off and are not serious
> about
> 
> > it. 
> 
> > They
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> are really just
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > looking for the next full time gig. 
> 
> > This will get
> 
> > in
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> your way if you
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > have real business work to do.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > - We must look truthfully at this issue
> if we
> 
> > are to
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> make progress.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > - There are no serious incubators and
> 
> > entrepreneurial
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> meetups in
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > Phoenix.  No announcements on VC
> funding
> 
> > of
> 
> > companies
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> so it's not
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > really entrepreneurial growth.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > ---[End my paraphrasing of your
> comments]---
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > I see validity in every one of these
> 
> > comments.  I
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> also think many of
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > them can be balanced by the other point
> of
> 
> > view. 
> 
> > I
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> still have
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > questions, if I may ask, before I state
> too
> 
> > much of my
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> own thinking.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > I want to learn more about your
> thinking.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > 1. What does "deal with existing
> 
> > structure"
> 
> > mean?
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>  This confuses me,
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > not know what structure you are talking
> 
> > about.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>   Many user groups have been formed
> and
> 
> > continue
> 
> > to
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> exist... how is
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> <groupX> different?  other than
> its led
> 
> > by
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> person Y?  I mean dealing
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> with some of these groups I feel like Im back
> to
> 
> > age 8
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> trying to gain
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> admittance into the neighborhood treehouse. 
> 
> > Perhaps I
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> should spend
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> more time drinking beer with these people? 
> 
> > Seeing the
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> same small
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> group churning out 'communities' is
> at
> 
> > first funny, then
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> annoying.  I
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> just see a real lack of serious intent, and
> unless
> 
> > that is
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> noted
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> publicly, it makes all of us look bad. 
> I
> 
> > really dont
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> think Im being
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> destructive or malicious here, Im pointing
> out
> 
> > some valid
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> observations.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > 2. To what efforts of the past are you
> 
> > referring? 
> 
> > I
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> want to
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > understand the size and nature of
> efforts to
> 
> > creating
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> a community that
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > you feel were legitimate but perhaps did
> not
> 
> > work as
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> planned.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>   I remember when I first came to
> AZ
> 
> > that there was
> 
> > an
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> tech
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> incubator...  what happened to it? 
> 
> > Which
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> political agents currently
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> support technology development in the
> 
> > valley?  what do
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> they think
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> about your org?  these things are
> pretty
> 
> > basic...
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > 3. What political support is needed? 
> 
> > You mean
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> government funding of
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > events or startups or just verbal
> support or
> 
> > what?
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>   I wouldn't expect funding,
> but it
> 
> > would be good
> 
> > to
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> see some
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> political buy in.  Lack of just supports
> my
> 
> > opinions,
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> that its really
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> as Lisa said, camouflage for poor
> organization.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> Without any good
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> signposts, all this will produce are people
> who
> 
> > get jaded
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> and
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> disaffected with regards to this location. 
> 
> > If you had
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> something
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> together I doubt that a good politician would
> turn
> 
> > you
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> down.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > 4. Why is it wrong or a problem for
> someone
> 
> > who is
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> laid-off to have
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > grand ideas, talk about them and they
> never
> 
> > come to
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> be?
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>   Its not.  As I said, I
> don't
> 
> > find any of
> 
> > these
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> things highly
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> offensive- but like you I am free to express
> 
> > myself.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> Sorry if its not
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> filled with abundant exaltations.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > 5. Is it not conceivable that people
> might
> 
> > help each
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> other in business
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > efforts?  Isn't strengthening
> and
> 
> > creating such a
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> culture a good idea
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > or should such a goal not be pursued
> because
> 
> > it is not
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> practically
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > possible?
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>   sure.  good thread btw. 
> 
> > -jmz
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > Alan
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Joshua
> 
> > Zeidner<jjzeidner@gmail.com>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> wrote:
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >> another great one:
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >> "OK, my question stands. Where
> are
> 
> > the
> 
> > incubators,
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> the "bootstrap"
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >> seminars, the serious
> entrepreneurial
> 
> > meetups in
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> Phoenix??? (crickets
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >> chirping). Phoenix just ain't
> 
> > happening as a
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> serious place where
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >> serious people are doing serious
> things.
> 
> > No one
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> wants it badly enough
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >> here. This paper should be having
> at
> 
> > least one
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> article a week on a new
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >> startup and the VC firm who funded
> it.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> Helloooo????? is anybody out
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >> there...."
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >> a better way to phrase this: we need
> to
> 
> > stop
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> pretending these
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >> whimsical efforts churned out by
> local
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> self-employed marketing experts
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >> are sufficient.  They are not.
> 
> 
> > We should
> 
> > be
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> asking the hard
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >> questions, not playing games.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >> -jmz
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:04 PM,
> Joshua
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> Zeidner<jjzeidner@gmail.com>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> wrote:
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>  another point, honestly
> reading
> 
> > through
> 
> > some
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> of the criticisms on
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>> azcentral and being of the cafe
> 
> > dwelling creed
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> myself, I'd have to say
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>> that many of those points are
> 
> > accurate. 
> 
> > I've
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> heard lots of
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>> 'entrepreneurs' with
> big
> 
> > ideas around here who
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> never get anywhere with
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>> them.  Sorry, but a word
> press
> 
> > template
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> doesn't make you an
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>> entrepreneur.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>  "These are the same
> people
> 
> > you see
> 
> > at
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> Starbucks, Boarders or any
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>> other wi-fi hot spot, they are
> not
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> entrepreneurs they are attention
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>> (inappropriate term)."
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>  "Many of the
> Co-Worker
> 
> > location
> 
> > founders
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> tout other people to
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>> collaborate with and who can
> 
> > "compensate
> 
> > for
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> your deficiencies". Do
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>> you really believe someone that
> you
> 
> > are not
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> paying as an employee is
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>> going to somehow compensate for
> your
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> deficiencies and make your
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>> business better? That kind of
> help
> 
> > doesn't
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> come without a price."
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>  oh so true...
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>  "You are more likely
> to
> 
> > get a bunch
> 
> > of
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> people chatting to you over
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>> your "work" so you
> wont be
> 
> > concentrating
> 
> > as
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> you should to focus on
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>> your business. Most of these
> people
> 
> > started
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> businesses after being
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>> laid off. They are searching for
> a
> 
> > new job and
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> they aren't really
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>> serious about their
> 
> > "businesses" so how
> 
> > do you
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> expect them to give you
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>> valuable, serious advice. Are
> these
> 
> > the kind
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> of people you need to
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>> compensate for your
> deficiencies? A
> 
> > bunch of
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> people half-as running
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>> their "business"
> while
> 
> > searching for a
> 
> > real
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> job and bothering you with
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>> their expertise that got them
> laid
> 
> > off in the
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> first place."
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>  oh so so true...
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>  I would be willing to bet
> the
> 
> > commenter
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> above is an tried and true
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>> successful entrepreneur. 
> 
> > Perhaps the
> 
> > reason
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> I am so skeptical is
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>> because I know these kind of
> people
> 
> > so well.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>  sorry I really wish I
> could be
> 
> > more
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> supportive... but :  truth is
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>> the foundation of progress.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>  -jmz
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:28
> PM,
> 
> > Joshua
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> Zeidner<jjzeidner@gmail.com>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> wrote:
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>  Alan,
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>    Wish I had
> time
> 
> > to respond to
> 
> > all
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> these points right now, not sure
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>> you read me the way I would
> 
> > prefer
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> however.  Its not so grave a
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>> warning, just getting the
> word
> 
> > out on my
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> first hand experiences.  Im
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>> just one of many- but
> hopefully
> 
> > an
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> impartial observer and someone
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>> genuinely concerned for AZ.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>  all the best, jmz
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:12
> PM,
> 
> > Alan
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> Dayley<alandd@consultpros.com>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> wrote:
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> Josh,
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> I feel warned.  And
> I
> 
> > don't
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> understand the reason for such a strong
> warning.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> There are people in
> every
> 
> > industry,
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> government or community who wish
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> to fleece their
> 
> > "community" for
> 
> > their
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> own profit instead of mutual
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> benefit.  The trick
> is
> 
> > to find
> 
> > the
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> positive people and ignore the
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> rest.  Apply the
> same
> 
> > filter with
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> every event, group or blogger in the
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> lists and links I
> 
> > provided.  I
> 
> > don't
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> expect bloggers or techies to be
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> any different, as if
> being
> 
> > techie
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> makes one a saint.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> Some of those bloggers
> are
> 
> > purely
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> commercial or completely neglected,
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> I'm sure.  Some
> of
> 
> > the groups or
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> events or sites listed are lousy,
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> boring or poor
> marketing
> 
> > excuses to
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> sell something.  Some are not out
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> to create community but
> to
> 
> > build a
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> "kingdom" for their own benefit.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> They are the duds.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> Let's look at a few
> 
> > positives:
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> - Read the Gangplank
> 
> > Manifesto on
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> their home page at
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> >
> 
> http://gangplankhq.com.  That looks like
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> a great articulation of their
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> goals and purpose. 
> Ones
> 
> > I
> 
> > strongly
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> support!
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> -- Read how the
> manifesto
> 
> > came to be
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> on Derek's blog at
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> >
> 
> http://derekneighbors.com/2009/07/collaborative-writing-or-how-the-gangplank-manifesto-was-written/
> 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> - Gangplank has hosted
> or is
> 
> > hosting:
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> -- MobiFest - a day
> long
> 
> > conference on
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> developing for phones like
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> iPhone or Android
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> -- Gangplank Jr. - a 2-3
> hour
> 
> > Saturday
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> event for kids 5-15 to learn
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> programming concepts
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> -- Wordpress training
> classes
> 
> > for
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> minimal cost or no-cost for non-profit orgs
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> -- Laid Off Camp - a
> day
> 
> > long
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> conference on job searching and
> entreprenuership
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> -- Barcamp Pheonix - a
> day
> 
> > long
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> conference on software development
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> -- TEDx night - Watch
> ted.com
> 
> > videos
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> and discuss them
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> -- OpenPhoenix - a night
> of
> 
> > open mic
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> music and entertainment
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> - The last
> 
> > 
> 
> >
> 
> http://desertcodecamp.com/ was held on June 13th and
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> nearly
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> filled DeVry's
> Phoenix
> 
> > campus with
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> developers talking about code or
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> making code.  Free
> lunch
> 
> > of pizza
> 
> > and
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> sub sandwiches was provided too.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>  Put together by
> 
> > volunteers.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> - If you're into
> 
> > Microsoft based
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> development tech, the people who
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> maintain the
> 
> >
> http://azgroups.com
> 
> 
> > site do an annual all-day event at
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> venues like the Orphium
> 
> > Theater and at
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> no cost to attendees.  Fine,
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> it's marketing for
> MS but
> 
> > it's put on
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> by volunteers here in the valley
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> and a great way for
> people to
> 
> > learn
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> about things that improve their
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> career skills.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>
> 
> > (
> 
> >
> 
> http://www.componentart.com/BLOGS/milos/archive/2009/06/02/scott-guthrie-event-2009-phoenix-az.aspx
> 
> 
> > )
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> - The local Ruby On
> Rails
> 
> > group has
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> monthly meetings with around 30
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> regularly in
> attendance.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> - The Java group is also
> well
> 
> > attended
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> every month.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> - The third
> 
> >
> http://podcampaz.com/
> 
> 
> >  is coming up in November, put on
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> by
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> voluteers at no cost
> 
> > (donation
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> requested) to attendees.  Had about 350
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> people attend last year
> (if I
> 
> > recall)
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> for two days of conference.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> - The
> 
> > 
> 
> >
> 
> http://azentrepreneurship.com/ conference will be in
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> November
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> for the forth year. 
> 
> > This one
> 
> > costs
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> $100+ but should be as well
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> attended as last year
> with
> 
> > 200+
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> people.  Funded and organized in part
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> by a local venture
> capital
> 
> > group.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> - The first
> 
> > 
> 
> >
> 
> http://ignitephoenix.com event was held a year ago
> 
> > with
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> a
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> little over 100 in
> attendance
> 
> > and has
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> grown to fill the 600 seat
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> Theather at Tempe Center
> for
> 
> > the Arts
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> back in June.  The connections
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> made there live well
> past the
> 
> > event.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> -- Oh, a city council
> member
> 
> > and the
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> mayor of Tempe spoke this last
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> time, though he was a
> bit
> 
> > silly trying
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> to be Tempe exclusive.  That
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> seems to be at least
> verbal
> 
> > political
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> support.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> - The second ABLEConf
> on
> 
> > FS/OSS is
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> being planned for October and
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> should be better than
> last
> 
> > year. (Go
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> Hans and team!)
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> I'm not going to go
> on,
> 
> > though I could
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> point out several purely social
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> events like
> 
> > 
> 
> >
> 
> http://phoenixfridaynights.com/, it's east and
> 
> > west
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> valley
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> analogs, East Valley
> Thursday
> 
> > Morning
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> breakfasts, Tempe Geeks Lunch,
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> South Valley Geek Meet
> and
> 
> > Eat and
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> Gangplank's Brown Gag lunch
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> presentations every
> 
> > Wednesday.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> Now, having said all of
> that
> 
> > "giddy
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> blind optimism," I'd like to
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> understand how the above
> does
> 
> > not
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> address the efforts of the past or
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> provide improvement over
> past
> 
> > efforts.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>  What are the real needs of the
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> community, if not some
> of the
> 
> > above?
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>  What would you suggest?  How can
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> PLUG be a part of it?
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> Alan
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at
> 1:34
> 
> > PM,
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> Joshua Zeidner<jjzeidner@gmail.com>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> wrote:
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>>  Alan,
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>>   
> while I
> 
> > appreciate
> 
> > your post,
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> and anyone who is making a sincere
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>> effort to build
> community
> 
> > in
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> Phoenix... be warned.  There are some
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>> small groups who
> 
> > periodically
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> spawn off new 'communities' every
> month
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>> or so.  Look
> closely
> 
> > and you
> 
> > see
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> the same few people with reused
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>> marketing recipes. 
> 
> > Lots of
> 
> > blog
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> and not too much community I'm
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>> afraid.  Their
> 
> > efforts amount
> 
> > to
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> some simple branding and putting up a
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>> blog.  While
> these
> 
> > things are
> 
> > not
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> really particularily offensive to
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>> me, they do
> somewhat
> 
> > detract from
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> interest in the real needs of the
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>> community here. 
> 
> > Some of
> 
> > these
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> people are just outright idiotic and
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>> cannot deal with
> 
> > existing
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> structure and refuse to accept the history
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>> of efforts in the
> 
> > past.  They
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> lack any articulation of their goals and
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>> purpose. 
> Often
> 
> > times they
> 
> > have
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> trouble organizing even small groups
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>> of 2 or 3. 
> Dont
> 
> > forget we've
> 
> > had
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> a tech incubator here.  Lets not
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>> smack down sincere
> 
> > criticism in
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> favor of giddy blind optimism,
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>> remember you
> can't
> 
> > improve without
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> criticism.  I would take these
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>> people much more
> 
> > seriously if they
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> addressed the efforts of the past
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>> and perhaps
> suggested how
> 
> > they are
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> going to improve on them, or
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>> perhaps indicate
> what has
> 
> > changed
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> that will make them a success.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>> Maybe seeking real
> 
> > political
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> support would gain some legitimacy.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>>    on
> the
> 
> > positive side,
> 
> > I think
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> Phoenix will attract a lot of
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>> technology business
> due
> 
> > to its
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> relative low cost and no doubt you will
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>> start to see
> community
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> infrastructure grow.  We are seeing
> some
> 
> > real
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>> urban development
> 
> > happening in Phx
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> metro which has me very excited.  I
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>> think when the
> 
> > macroeconomic
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> problems are sorted out we will see
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>> downtown Phx bloom.
> 
> 
> > Im
> 
> > hoping
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> that the average Arizonan gets involved
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>> in the political
> process
> 
> > and make
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> sure that the corruption stays out
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>> of city and state
> 
> > politics.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>  Coming from NY, Im recognizing a lot
> of
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>> positive
> development
> 
> > trends in Phx
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> metro.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>>  -jmz
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>
> 
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing
> list -
> 
> > PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>> To subscribe,
> unsubscribe, or
> 
> > to
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> change your mail settings:
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> >
> 
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> >>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>
> 
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> > 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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