I think what is really missing from this equation is mentoring and training.

I like the idea that folks are getting together to network.  This is a really cool idea.  Even for non-technical stuff like finding out how people deal with customers, contracting, book-keeping, ETC.



  
------------------------
Keith Smith


--- On Sat, 8/1/09, Joshua Zeidner <jjzeidner@gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Joshua Zeidner <jjzeidner@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in PHX
> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 6:08 PM
> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:09 PM,
> Alan Dayley<alandd@consultpros.com>
> wrote:
> > Joshua,
> >
> > I put all your replies together in one long document
> and reread them.
> > I am still confused a bit.  Enlightenment via email
> rarely occurs.
> > However, I really want to understand your position in
> this discussion.
> >  Let me summarize what I understand from your
> replies.
> >
> > ---[Start my paraphasing of your comments]---
> >
> > - There is a small group or groups of people who keep
> spinning off
> > communities using tired marketing techniques.  This
> results in blogs
> > but not true communities.
> >
> > - Some of these people cannot deal with existing
> structure and the
> > efforts of the past.
> >
> > - These weak attempts do not articulate goals or
> purpose well, if at all.
> >
> > - We must honestly look at criticism to learn and
> improve.
> >
> > - These weak people need to address the efforts of the
> past and
> > provide suggestions on how they can be improved upon.
> >
> > - Getting political support will provide legitimacy to
> their efforts.
> >
> > - Phoenix will attract technology businesses because
> of the relative
> > low cost and this will help improve things.
> >
> > - You have first hand experiences of weak, marketing
> fronted,
> > community building efforts.
> >
> > - Many 'entrepreneurs' have grand ideas but get
> nowhere with them
> > because they are not real businesses.
> >
> > - People at a co-working location or coffee shop will
> not help you
> > with your business unless you pay them.
> >
> > - Most people at co-working started their one person
> business after
> > being laid-off and are not serious about it.  They
> are really just
> > looking for the next full time gig.  This will get in
> your way if you
> > have real business work to do.
> >
> > - We must look truthfully at this issue if we are to
> make progress.
> >
> > - There are no serious incubators and entrepreneurial
> meetups in
> > Phoenix.  No announcements on VC funding of companies
> so it's not
> > really entrepreneurial growth.
> >
> > ---[End my paraphrasing of your comments]---
> >
> > I see validity in every one of these comments.  I
> also think many of
> > them can be balanced by the other point of view.  I
> still have
> > questions, if I may ask, before I state too much of my
> own thinking.
> > I want to learn more about your thinking.
> >
> > 1. What does "deal with existing structure" mean?
>  This confuses me,
> > not know what structure you are talking about.
> 
>   Many user groups have been formed and continue to
> exist... how is
> <groupX> different?  other than its led by
> person Y?  I mean dealing
> with some of these groups I feel like Im back to age 8
> trying to gain
> admittance into the neighborhood treehouse.  Perhaps I
> should spend
> more time drinking beer with these people?  Seeing the
> same small
> group churning out 'communities' is at first funny, then
> annoying.  I
> just see a real lack of serious intent, and unless that is
> noted
> publicly, it makes all of us look bad.  I really dont
> think Im being
> destructive or malicious here, Im pointing out some valid
> observations.
> 
> >
> > 2. To what efforts of the past are you referring?  I
> want to
> > understand the size and nature of efforts to creating
> a community that
> > you feel were legitimate but perhaps did not work as
> planned.
> 
>   I remember when I first came to AZ that there was an
> tech
> incubator...  what happened to it?  Which
> political agents currently
> support technology development in the valley?  what do
> they think
> about your org?  these things are pretty basic...
> 
> >
> > 3. What political support is needed?  You mean
> government funding of
> > events or startups or just verbal support or what?
> 
>   I wouldn't expect funding, but it would be good to
> see some
> political buy in.  Lack of just supports my opinions,
> that its really
> as Lisa said, camouflage for poor organization. 
> Without any good
> signposts, all this will produce are people who get jaded
> and
> disaffected with regards to this location.  If you had
> something
> together I doubt that a good politician would turn you
> down.
> 
> >
> > 4. Why is it wrong or a problem for someone who is
> laid-off to have
> > grand ideas, talk about them and they never come to
> be?
> 
>   Its not.  As I said, I don't find any of these
> things highly
> offensive- but like you I am free to express myself. 
> Sorry if its not
> filled with abundant exaltations.
> 
> >
> > 5. Is it not conceivable that people might help each
> other in business
> > efforts?  Isn't strengthening and creating such a
> culture a good idea
> > or should such a goal not be pursued because it is not
> practically
> > possible?
> 
>   sure.  good thread btw.  -jmz
> 
> >
> > Alan
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Joshua Zeidner<jjzeidner@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> another great one:
> >>
> >> "OK, my question stands. Where are the incubators,
> the "bootstrap"
> >> seminars, the serious entrepreneurial meetups in
> Phoenix??? (crickets
> >> chirping). Phoenix just ain't happening as a
> serious place where
> >> serious people are doing serious things. No one
> wants it badly enough
> >> here. This paper should be having at least one
> article a week on a new
> >> startup and the VC firm who funded it.
> Helloooo????? is anybody out
> >> there...."
> >>
> >> a better way to phrase this: we need to stop
> pretending these
> >> whimsical efforts churned out by local
> self-employed marketing experts
> >> are sufficient.  They are not.  We should be
> asking the hard
> >> questions, not playing games.
> >>
> >> -jmz
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Joshua
> Zeidner<jjzeidner@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>  another point, honestly reading through some
> of the criticisms on
> >>> azcentral and being of the cafe dwelling creed
> myself, I'd have to say
> >>> that many of those points are accurate.  I've
> heard lots of
> >>> 'entrepreneurs' with big ideas around here who
> never get anywhere with
> >>> them.  Sorry, but a word press template
> doesn't make you an
> >>> entrepreneur.
> >>>
> >>>  "These are the same people you see at
> Starbucks, Boarders or any
> >>> other wi-fi hot spot, they are not
> entrepreneurs they are attention
> >>> (inappropriate term)."
> >>>
> >>>  "Many of the Co-Worker location founders
> tout other people to
> >>> collaborate with and who can "compensate for
> your deficiencies". Do
> >>> you really believe someone that you are not
> paying as an employee is
> >>> going to somehow compensate for your
> deficiencies and make your
> >>> business better? That kind of help doesn't
> come without a price."
> >>>
> >>>  oh so true...
> >>>
> >>>  "You are more likely to get a bunch of
> people chatting to you over
> >>> your "work" so you wont be concentrating as
> you should to focus on
> >>> your business. Most of these people started
> businesses after being
> >>> laid off. They are searching for a new job and
> they aren't really
> >>> serious about their "businesses" so how do you
> expect them to give you
> >>> valuable, serious advice. Are these the kind
> of people you need to
> >>> compensate for your deficiencies? A bunch of
> people half-as running
> >>> their "business" while searching for a real
> job and bothering you with
> >>> their expertise that got them laid off in the
> first place."
> >>>
> >>>  oh so so true...
> >>>
> >>>  I would be willing to bet the commenter
> above is an tried and true
> >>> successful entrepreneur.  Perhaps the reason
> I am so skeptical is
> >>> because I know these kind of people so well.
> >>>
> >>>  sorry I really wish I could be more
> supportive... but :  truth is
> >>> the foundation of progress.
> >>>
> >>>  -jmz
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:28 PM, Joshua
> Zeidner<jjzeidner@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>  Alan,
> >>>>
> >>>>    Wish I had time to respond to all
> these points right now, not sure
> >>>> you read me the way I would prefer
> however.  Its not so grave a
> >>>> warning, just getting the word out on my
> first hand experiences.  Im
> >>>> just one of many- but hopefully an
> impartial observer and someone
> >>>> genuinely concerned for AZ.
> >>>>
> >>>>  all the best, jmz
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:12 PM, Alan
> Dayley<alandd@consultpros.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>> Josh,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I feel warned.  And I don't
> understand the reason for such a strong warning.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There are people in every industry,
> government or community who wish
> >>>>> to fleece their "community" for their
> own profit instead of mutual
> >>>>> benefit.  The trick is to find the
> positive people and ignore the
> >>>>> rest.  Apply the same filter with
> every event, group or blogger in the
> >>>>> lists and links I provided.  I don't
> expect bloggers or techies to be
> >>>>> any different, as if being techie
> makes one a saint.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Some of those bloggers are purely
> commercial or completely neglected,
> >>>>> I'm sure.  Some of the groups or
> events or sites listed are lousy,
> >>>>> boring or poor marketing excuses to
> sell something.  Some are not out
> >>>>> to create community but to build a
> "kingdom" for their own benefit.
> >>>>> They are the duds.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Let's look at a few positives:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - Read the Gangplank Manifesto on
> their home page at
> >>>>> http://gangplankhq.com.  That looks like
> a great articulation of their
> >>>>> goals and purpose.  Ones I strongly
> support!
> >>>>> -- Read how the manifesto came to be
> on Derek's blog at
> >>>>> http://derekneighbors.com/2009/07/collaborative-writing-or-how-the-gangplank-manifesto-was-written/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - Gangplank has hosted or is hosting:
> >>>>> -- MobiFest - a day long conference on
> developing for phones like
> >>>>> iPhone or Android
> >>>>> -- Gangplank Jr. - a 2-3 hour Saturday
> event for kids 5-15 to learn
> >>>>> programming concepts
> >>>>> -- Wordpress training classes for
> minimal cost or no-cost for non-profit orgs
> >>>>> -- Laid Off Camp - a day long
> conference on job searching and entreprenuership
> >>>>> -- Barcamp Pheonix - a day long
> conference on software development
> >>>>> -- TEDx night - Watch ted.com videos
> and discuss them
> >>>>> -- OpenPhoenix - a night of open mic
> music and entertainment
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - The last http://desertcodecamp.com/ was held on June 13th and
> nearly
> >>>>> filled DeVry's Phoenix campus with
> developers talking about code or
> >>>>> making code.  Free lunch of pizza and
> sub sandwiches was provided too.
> >>>>>  Put together by volunteers.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - If you're into Microsoft based
> development tech, the people who
> >>>>> maintain the http://azgroups.com site do an annual all-day event at
> >>>>> venues like the Orphium Theater and at
> no cost to attendees.  Fine,
> >>>>> it's marketing for MS but it's put on
> by volunteers here in the valley
> >>>>> and a great way for people to learn
> about things that improve their
> >>>>> career skills.
> >>>>> (http://www.componentart.com/BLOGS/milos/archive/2009/06/02/scott-guthrie-event-2009-phoenix-az.aspx)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - The local Ruby On Rails group has
> monthly meetings with around 30
> >>>>> regularly in attendance.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - The Java group is also well attended
> every month.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - The third http://podcampaz.com/ is coming up in November, put on
> by
> >>>>> voluteers at no cost (donation
> requested) to attendees.  Had about 350
> >>>>> people attend last year (if I recall)
> for two days of conference.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - The http://azentrepreneurship.com/ conference will be in
> November
> >>>>> for the forth year.  This one costs
> $100+ but should be as well
> >>>>> attended as last year with 200+
> people.  Funded and organized in part
> >>>>> by a local venture capital group.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - The first http://ignitephoenix.com event was held a year ago with
> a
> >>>>> little over 100 in attendance and has
> grown to fill the 600 seat
> >>>>> Theather at Tempe Center for the Arts
> back in June.  The connections
> >>>>> made there live well past the event.
> >>>>> -- Oh, a city council member and the
> mayor of Tempe spoke this last
> >>>>> time, though he was a bit silly trying
> to be Tempe exclusive.  That
> >>>>> seems to be at least verbal political
> support.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - The second ABLEConf on FS/OSS is
> being planned for October and
> >>>>> should be better than last year. (Go
> Hans and team!)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm not going to go on, though I could
> point out several purely social
> >>>>> events like http://phoenixfridaynights.com/, it's east and west
> valley
> >>>>> analogs, East Valley Thursday Morning
> breakfasts, Tempe Geeks Lunch,
> >>>>> South Valley Geek Meet and Eat and
> Gangplank's Brown Gag lunch
> >>>>> presentations every Wednesday.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Now, having said all of that "giddy
> blind optimism," I'd like to
> >>>>> understand how the above does not
> address the efforts of the past or
> >>>>> provide improvement over past efforts.
>  What are the real needs of the
> >>>>> community, if not some of the above?
>  What would you suggest?  How can
> >>>>> PLUG be a part of it?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Alan
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:34 PM,
> Joshua Zeidner<jjzeidner@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>  Alan,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>    while I appreciate your post,
> and anyone who is making a sincere
> >>>>>> effort to build community in
> Phoenix... be warned.  There are some
> >>>>>> small groups who periodically
> spawn off new 'communities' every month
> >>>>>> or so.  Look closely and you see
> the same few people with reused
> >>>>>> marketing recipes.  Lots of blog
> and not too much community I'm
> >>>>>> afraid.  Their efforts amount to
> some simple branding and putting up a
> >>>>>> blog.  While these things are not
> really particularily offensive to
> >>>>>> me, they do somewhat detract from
> interest in the real needs of the
> >>>>>> community here.  Some of these
> people are just outright idiotic and
> >>>>>> cannot deal with existing
> structure and refuse to accept the history
> >>>>>> of efforts in the past.  They
> lack any articulation of their goals and
> >>>>>> purpose.  Often times they have
> trouble organizing even small groups
> >>>>>> of 2 or 3.  Dont forget we've had
> a tech incubator here.  Lets not
> >>>>>> smack down sincere criticism in
> favor of giddy blind optimism,
> >>>>>> remember you can't improve without
> criticism.  I would take these
> >>>>>> people much more seriously if they
> addressed the efforts of the past
> >>>>>> and perhaps suggested how they are
> going to improve on them, or
> >>>>>> perhaps indicate what has changed
> that will make them a success.
> >>>>>> Maybe seeking real political
> support would gain some legitimacy.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>    on the positive side, I think
> Phoenix will attract a lot of
> >>>>>> technology business due to its
> relative low cost and no doubt you will
> >>>>>> start to see community
> infrastructure grow.  We are seeing some real
> >>>>>> urban development happening in Phx
> metro which has me very excited.  I
> >>>>>> think when the macroeconomic
> problems are sorted out we will see
> >>>>>> downtown Phx bloom.  Im hoping
> that the average Arizonan gets involved
> >>>>>> in the political process and make
> sure that the corruption stays out
> >>>>>> of city and state politics.
>  Coming from NY, Im recognizing a lot of
> >>>>>> positive development trends in Phx
> metro.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>  -jmz
> >>>>>
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> >>>>
> >>>
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