another great one: "OK, my question stands. Where are the incubators, the "bootstrap" seminars, the serious entrepreneurial meetups in Phoenix??? (crickets chirping). Phoenix just ain't happening as a serious place where serious people are doing serious things. No one wants it badly enough here. This paper should be having at least one article a week on a new startup and the VC firm who funded it. Helloooo????? is anybody out there...." a better way to phrase this: we need to stop pretending these whimsical efforts churned out by local self-employed marketing experts are sufficient. They are not. We should be asking the hard questions, not playing games. -jmz On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: >  another point, honestly reading through some of the criticisms on > azcentral and being of the cafe dwelling creed myself, I'd have to say > that many of those points are accurate.  I've heard lots of > 'entrepreneurs' with big ideas around here who never get anywhere with > them.  Sorry, but a word press template doesn't make you an > entrepreneur. > >  "These are the same people you see at Starbucks, Boarders or any > other wi-fi hot spot, they are not entrepreneurs they are attention > (inappropriate term)." > >  "Many of the Co-Worker location founders tout other people to > collaborate with and who can "compensate for your deficiencies". Do > you really believe someone that you are not paying as an employee is > going to somehow compensate for your deficiencies and make your > business better? That kind of help doesn't come without a price." > >  oh so true... > >  "You are more likely to get a bunch of people chatting to you over > your "work" so you wont be concentrating as you should to focus on > your business. Most of these people started businesses after being > laid off. They are searching for a new job and they aren't really > serious about their "businesses" so how do you expect them to give you > valuable, serious advice. Are these the kind of people you need to > compensate for your deficiencies? A bunch of people half-as running > their "business" while searching for a real job and bothering you with > their expertise that got them laid off in the first place." > >  oh so so true... > >  I would be willing to bet the commenter above is an tried and true > successful entrepreneur.  Perhaps the reason I am so skeptical is > because I know these kind of people so well. > >  sorry I really wish I could be more supportive... but :  truth is > the foundation of progress. > >  -jmz > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:28 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: >>  Alan, >> >>    Wish I had time to respond to all these points right now, not sure >> you read me the way I would prefer however.  Its not so grave a >> warning, just getting the word out on my first hand experiences.  Im >> just one of many- but hopefully an impartial observer and someone >> genuinely concerned for AZ. >> >>  all the best, jmz >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:12 PM, Alan Dayley wrote: >>> Josh, >>> >>> I feel warned.  And I don't understand the reason for such a strong warning. >>> >>> There are people in every industry, government or community who wish >>> to fleece their "community" for their own profit instead of mutual >>> benefit.  The trick is to find the positive people and ignore the >>> rest.  Apply the same filter with every event, group or blogger in the >>> lists and links I provided.  I don't expect bloggers or techies to be >>> any different, as if being techie makes one a saint. >>> >>> Some of those bloggers are purely commercial or completely neglected, >>> I'm sure.  Some of the groups or events or sites listed are lousy, >>> boring or poor marketing excuses to sell something.  Some are not out >>> to create community but to build a "kingdom" for their own benefit. >>> They are the duds. >>> >>> Let's look at a few positives: >>> >>> - Read the Gangplank Manifesto on their home page at >>> http://gangplankhq.com.  That looks like a great articulation of their >>> goals and purpose.  Ones I strongly support! >>> -- Read how the manifesto came to be on Derek's blog at >>> http://derekneighbors.com/2009/07/collaborative-writing-or-how-the-gangplank-manifesto-was-written/ >>> >>> - Gangplank has hosted or is hosting: >>> -- MobiFest - a day long conference on developing for phones like >>> iPhone or Android >>> -- Gangplank Jr. - a 2-3 hour Saturday event for kids 5-15 to learn >>> programming concepts >>> -- Wordpress training classes for minimal cost or no-cost for non-profit orgs >>> -- Laid Off Camp - a day long conference on job searching and entreprenuership >>> -- Barcamp Pheonix - a day long conference on software development >>> -- TEDx night - Watch ted.com videos and discuss them >>> -- OpenPhoenix - a night of open mic music and entertainment >>> >>> - The last http://desertcodecamp.com/ was held on June 13th and nearly >>> filled DeVry's Phoenix campus with developers talking about code or >>> making code.  Free lunch of pizza and sub sandwiches was provided too. >>>  Put together by volunteers. >>> >>> - If you're into Microsoft based development tech, the people who >>> maintain the http://azgroups.com site do an annual all-day event at >>> venues like the Orphium Theater and at no cost to attendees.  Fine, >>> it's marketing for MS but it's put on by volunteers here in the valley >>> and a great way for people to learn about things that improve their >>> career skills. >>> (http://www.componentart.com/BLOGS/milos/archive/2009/06/02/scott-guthrie-event-2009-phoenix-az.aspx) >>> >>> - The local Ruby On Rails group has monthly meetings with around 30 >>> regularly in attendance. >>> >>> - The Java group is also well attended every month. >>> >>> - The third http://podcampaz.com/ is coming up in November, put on by >>> voluteers at no cost (donation requested) to attendees.  Had about 350 >>> people attend last year (if I recall) for two days of conference. >>> >>> - The http://azentrepreneurship.com/ conference will be in November >>> for the forth year.  This one costs $100+ but should be as well >>> attended as last year with 200+ people.  Funded and organized in part >>> by a local venture capital group. >>> >>> - The first http://ignitephoenix.com event was held a year ago with a >>> little over 100 in attendance and has grown to fill the 600 seat >>> Theather at Tempe Center for the Arts back in June.  The connections >>> made there live well past the event. >>> -- Oh, a city council member and the mayor of Tempe spoke this last >>> time, though he was a bit silly trying to be Tempe exclusive.  That >>> seems to be at least verbal political support. >>> >>> - The second ABLEConf on FS/OSS is being planned for October and >>> should be better than last year. (Go Hans and team!) >>> >>> I'm not going to go on, though I could point out several purely social >>> events like http://phoenixfridaynights.com/, it's east and west valley >>> analogs, East Valley Thursday Morning breakfasts, Tempe Geeks Lunch, >>> South Valley Geek Meet and Eat and Gangplank's Brown Gag lunch >>> presentations every Wednesday. >>> >>> Now, having said all of that "giddy blind optimism," I'd like to >>> understand how the above does not address the efforts of the past or >>> provide improvement over past efforts.  What are the real needs of the >>> community, if not some of the above?  What would you suggest?  How can >>> PLUG be a part of it? >>> >>> Alan >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: >>>>  Alan, >>>> >>>>    while I appreciate your post, and anyone who is making a sincere >>>> effort to build community in Phoenix... be warned.  There are some >>>> small groups who periodically spawn off new 'communities' every month >>>> or so.  Look closely and you see the same few people with reused >>>> marketing recipes.  Lots of blog and not too much community I'm >>>> afraid.  Their efforts amount to some simple branding and putting up a >>>> blog.  While these things are not really particularily offensive to >>>> me, they do somewhat detract from interest in the real needs of the >>>> community here.  Some of these people are just outright idiotic and >>>> cannot deal with existing structure and refuse to accept the history >>>> of efforts in the past.  They lack any articulation of their goals and >>>> purpose.  Often times they have trouble organizing even small groups >>>> of 2 or 3.  Dont forget we've had a tech incubator here.  Lets not >>>> smack down sincere criticism in favor of giddy blind optimism, >>>> remember you can't improve without criticism.  I would take these >>>> people much more seriously if they addressed the efforts of the past >>>> and perhaps suggested how they are going to improve on them, or >>>> perhaps indicate what has changed that will make them a success. >>>> Maybe seeking real political support would gain some legitimacy. >>>> >>>>    on the positive side, I think Phoenix will attract a lot of >>>> technology business due to its relative low cost and no doubt you will >>>> start to see community infrastructure grow.  We are seeing some real >>>> urban development happening in Phx metro which has me very excited.  I >>>> think when the macroeconomic problems are sorted out we will see >>>> downtown Phx bloom.  Im hoping that the average Arizonan gets involved >>>> in the political process and make sure that the corruption stays out >>>> of city and state politics.  Coming from NY, Im recognizing a lot of >>>> positive development trends in Phx metro. >>>> >>>>  -jmz >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>> >> > --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss