Mike : Thanks for a clear, well-reasoned, well-supported, and quite enlightening post. I think you've said a lot of worthwhile stuff about list dynamics. I know I sometimes say stuff in email (on this list and elsewhere) that's interpreted as hostile when I didn't mean it that way. I've also taken offense from posts where I found out later none was meant. It's good to be reminded every so often of how prevalent this phenomenon is. alex Quoting Mike Schwartz : > On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Erich Newell wrote: > >> [...] this thread... [...] the bickering. >> [...snip...] >> >> For those who seem unable to debate without personal insult: >> Please learn to focus discussion on the topic at hand and not >> the belief structure or mental faculties of others involved in the >> conversation. >> >> For those who seem unable to debate without personal injury: >> The world is filled with those who are every bit as intelligent, >> clever and passionate as you are...who hold a viewpoint >> diametrically opposed to yours. Please grow a pair. >> >> For the record: I welcome any and all comments. My feelings >> are indestructible. Debate and discourse feed my soul and help >> me to shape the axioms of my life and allow me to better understand >> others...even those who infuriate me to no end. (You know who you are) >> >> I look forward to some quality discussions with you all, especially >> those concerning our common love of Linux. >> >> Best Regards, >> Erich Newell >> -- >> "A man is defined by the questions that he asks; and the way he >> goes about finding the answers to those questions is the way he >> goes through life." >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - [...] > > I *thought* something about this rang a bell! > First, in Craig White's post 10:32 am today > > http://lists.plug.phoenix.az.us/lurker/message/20080226.164214.e6a07a49.en.html > (or was it 9:42 am? whatever...) > I read the part about >> I suggested [...] that you were tone deaf and I think >> I speak with experience here because I am often >> accused of being tone deaf too. > ...and it reminded me of someone on the facebook site who > joined a group called "Adults with Asperger's Syndrome": > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=3063365093 > it lists numerous issues, "such as": >> Awareness of hurting the feelings of others: a lack of empathy >> often leads to unintentionally offensive or insensitive behaviors. > (do I need to join that "facebook group" also? Naah...) > (For some *humor!*, and maybe insight too, see > http://isnt.autistics.org/ > ). > Then I came to this thread -and, when I saw the stuff about >> I welcome any and all comments. >> My feelings are indestructible. > it just clicked, and I decided to find that > old (original) message (that had a link to > http://www.mit.edu/~jcb/tact.html > ...turns out it was from Jan 14, 2008, from Craig White): > > http://lists.plug.phoenix.az.us/lurker/message/20080115.022617.b714aa23.en.html > so - while it might be too late for some folks who have already > decided to "killfile" [unsub from] (stop reading) this list > (ha-ha - see http://catb.org/jargon/html/K/kill-file.html), > I hope that maybe some [others] > would take a step back, and rather than being scared off > by some of the late (perceived?) unpleasantness, would take > heart and keep in mind the stuff mentioned in > http://www.mit.edu/~jcb/tact.html > . > That is, perhaps others such as >> Did I make a wrong choice is joining this group? > which is a quote from > > http://lists.plug.phoenix.az.us/lurker/message/20080226.134243.5e5c24f1.en.html > and everyone else who might be thinking (but maybe > not posting) along the same lines. > PS: I think according to some philosophies, the ideal is to > learn "both" kinds of filtering (see > http://www.mit.edu/~jcb/tact.html > for the 2 kinds) (input and output, basically). That seems to > be the point of (much of) the message I am replying to, here. > That is, one should have a "Turtle Wax" exterior so as not to > take offense when none was intended, and just let it > roll off like beads of rain water, or maybe even so as to > [be armor-plated, and] > not get too upset even when some offense was intended, > at least in those cases where the person is being "not just" > impolite "but also" intentionally obnoxious. And > one should also be careful with one's output messages, > to self-censor one's outputs (like, posts) "as appropriate". > Obviously that is hard to do, for some folks - such as > the "Adults with Asperger's Syndrome" > and some other ["normal" or neuro-typical] folks who just > don't have the right radar or x-rays or whatever it is. > Sure, it's hard to do - witness the quantity of wives and > girlfriends who, when the guy fails to just know something > without being told, they slip in to a habit of assuming that > if the guy really cared, then he could have just spent X > amount more of time / effort, and he would have been > able to know (whatever it is) without being told. [Ha!] > But it doesn't necessarily mean it's better to give up. > 'Do the best you can.' > sorry this was so long... > -- > Mike Schwartz > Glendale AZ > schwartz@acm.org > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss