guys, I am really sorry if I upset anyone but I have been encouraged by one of 
the higher-ups to continue to do what I do. the reason for this, I am told,  
is that the amount of lurkers on this list is increasing rapidly and I seem 
to be the only one with no compunctions about being vocal. You are correct in 
saying that I should have said what I did to cause the cd player to play but 
I had to leave. The discussion then denigrated  to the point that my solution 
would have got lost in the mix. Also, I was hoping that someone would give an 
alternate solution to my problem. So, if you can't stand hearing what I have 
to say send my messages to /dev/null. In the paraphrased words of the higher 
up..... you're out of luck.

peace and love to all!

On Wednesday 28 March 2007 10:26 am, Darrin Chandler wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2007 at 10:00:20AM -0700, Micah DesJardins wrote:
> > I recognize Alex Dean's position that everyone's time is valuable and
> > that we should be considerate about what we send out to a mailing list
> > because in effect we are implicitly asking a large number of people to
> > read what we are saying.  I recognize Nathan and Bill's position that
> > inclusion and encouragement are more important than the signal to
> > noise ratio.  (However I submit that coming down on someone to prove
> > that coming down on someone is wrong is more than a little ironic.)  I
> > don't think there's anything wrong with encouraging people to post in
> > ways that are of greater benefit to everone on the list, but I don't
> > think we need to be heavy handed about enforcing any sort of policies
> > either (see top / bottom posting debacle in the archives ;) )
>
> Thanks for saying that so well!
>
> > In general I'd say, all questions are worth asking! However I also
> > consider it polite to do your research.  To that end I encourage you
> > to use Google, use your distribution's documentation, and use the man
> > command religiously!  My experience is that people are generally more
> > than happy to help but it always leaves a good impression when someone
> > has made a demonstrated effort to find a solution before bringing it
> > to the list.  That said, if you don't even know where to start, if you
> > have no idea where you would find a solution for a problem that you're
> > having, please don't let that discourage you from asking!
>
> Yes, yes, yes!
>
> All of us, from time to time, have trouble with something
> that we *should* be able to do on our own. Sometimes it's just a weird,
> temporary frame of mind where you can't come up with quite the right
> phrase to Google with. If you've tried and you're hitting the wall, then
> ask away!
>
> But doing that initial homework really does make a difference. I'm much
> more inclined to help someone who is trying hard but is stuck, than
> someone who wants *me* to read man pages and Google *instead* of them
> having to do it.
>
> Everyone here is pretty friendly and helpful, and thanks to everyone for
> that. The nice-to-rude ratio here is already very, very good. If some of
> this discussion sticks, it could be even better. :)
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