On Sat, 2004-01-10 at 14:08, Richard L. Proctor wrote: > On Thursday 08 January 2004 9:50 pm, Derek Neighbors wrote: > > > I will gladly let any law enforcement agency look at my computer. I > > have nothing to hide. However, I don't feel that any vendor has the > > right to access my computer without notifying me and certainly I don't > > think they should have reason to be installing software without > > notifying me. > > > > To be fair, to date Microsoft has not (to my knowledge) used or abused > > either one of these items, but certainly they put them in their EULA for > > a reason. > > The only way they can access your computer is if you have no firewall, if so, > then you might consider looking into security. You do give them permission > to access your computer "if" you are connected to their update services. > > Out of curiosity, what makes you think that just because Microsoft has a EULA > that would abuse it, and how do you know that up2date or yast, or what ever > other services you may connect to, don't already do this, but just tell you > about it? ---- I think you are trolling. I doubt that you have ever created a firewall that could stop them from accessing your computer. My fervent belief is that the user that does computer administration from point and click method doesn't have a clue what a firewall is stopping and permitting - IN or OUT of the network. I'll tell you what - if you want chills - set up a computer to act like a firewall and make it the default gateway for your network. Only tell it to simply log all traffic and do not allow it to connect or forward information to the Internet at all. Then install or start a new computer with Windows XP - obviously, you will not be able to activate because you have no access to the Internet at all. But if all of the traffic is logged, you will see all of the attempts by this system to connect to Microsoft and possibly many other manufacturers (hp keyboard ?) (mouse ?) etc. And of course, all of the port 80 traffic pretty much flows freely through firewalls - even through proxy servers that are trying to restrict outbound connections. These people aren't dumb and know exactly what they need to do to 'phone home.' As for your assertion about giving permission to Microsoft to access your computer, you give them permission to access your computer merely by 'activating' - you also give them permission by using Internet Explorer, Windows Media Player, and any application involved in Digital Rights Management (which by extension could be just about any application)... see quote at bottom of this email from Windows XP EULA on my hard drive anyway, in answer to your question to why I might think that they would abuse my trust in conjunction with or in excess to the EULA that they forced upon me in order to install the software on my computer, you only need to look at their conviction for excesses in obtaining and abusing their monopoly. Corporate greed, acts of vengeance and frequent assertion of their market position towards hardware manufacturers and software users seem to be pretty good indicators of a corporation not to be trusted. But hey, I'm a forgiving soul - just not stupid. Lastly...how do I know about up2date or yast? Yast, I don't know about...is the source code available? Up2date, the source code is available. Red Hat, you don't even need to use up2date...you can use yum (supplied) or apt-get (easily installed and used). Craig # from Windows XP SP1 * Digital Rights Management. Content providers are using the digital rights management technology contained in this Software ("DRM") to protect the integrity of their content ( "Secure Content") so that their intellectual property, including copyright, in such content is not misappropriated. Portions of this Software and third party applications such as media players use DRM to play Secure Content ("DRM Software"). If the DRM Software's security has been compromised, owners of Secure Content ("Secure Content Owners") may request that Microsoft Licensing, Inc. ("MS"), Microsoft Corporation or their subsidiaries revoke the DRM Software's right to copy, display and/or play Secure Content. Revocation does not alter the DRM Software's ability to play unprotected content. A list of revoked DRM Software is sent to your computer whenever you download a license for Secure Content from the Internet. You therefore agree that MS, Microsoft Corporation or their subsidiaries may, in conjunction with such license, also download revocation lists onto your computer on behalf of Secure Content Owners. MS, Microsoft Corporation or their subsidiaries will not retrieve any personally identifiable information, or any other information, from your computer by downloading such revocation lists. Secure Content Owners may also require you to upgrade some of the DRM components in this Software ("DRM Upgrades") before accessing their content. When you attempt to play such content, Microsoft DRM Software will notify you that a DRM Upgrade is required and then ask for your consent before the DRM Upgrade is downloaded. Third party DRM Software may do the same. If you decline the upgrade, you will not be able to access content that requires the DRM Upgrade; however, you will still be able to access unprotected content and Secure Content that does not require the upgrade.