Kevin, Where would you trcommend i get a power supply? What kind do you suggest buy= ing? :-)Mike(-: ----- Original Message ----- From: KevinO Sent: 4/10/2003 4:39:53 AM To: plug-discuss@lists=2Eplug=2Ephoenix=2Eaz=2Eus Subject: Re: why not cheap a psu? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Robert=2EWultsch@asu=2Eedu wrote: > Accepting that a cheap poer supply will only last 3 years (which I don't),= I > don't think that the average person will get 3-6 times the value out of an= > expensive psu=2E > They probably won't, but some will and I do=2E You may get 3-6 times as much damage out of a 'poorly built' one=2E (Actually= some vs none=2E) You may also get flakey or occasional problems that are very= hard to troubleshoot=2E I have been lucky and only had one cheap power supply= completely fail, but it only took about 8 months=2E It depends, I guess, on what you are building and how your budget is=2E I ha= ve bought cheap (and poorly built) cases and just used the supply that came with= it=2E I have also recently bought a couple Antec True 380s=2E They weigh TWI= CE as much as the 'Fry's Special(tm) 300W=2E They were tested by Tom's Hardware http://www6=2Etomshardware=2Ecom/howto/20021021/powersupplies-15=2Ehtml and shown to produce what their ratings say they can without catching on fire= or destroying themselves trying=2E(to catch on fire) They have variable speed= fans (two per supply) so they are quiet, move a lot of air, and can power up= to 3 case fans variable speed also=2E There is a small fan connector that ca= n be plugged into the motherboard and supply a fan rotation pulse thereby allowing= you to monitor the speed of a power supply fan using lm_sensors etc=2E=2E These went into our workstations=2E They are run 24x7 and each have multiple= HDs, lots of ram and fast (room-heating) processors=2E They have CDRWs and DVDROMS=2E One has a zip and the other a tape drive=2E They both have power = hungry video cards=2EI expect these supplies to run for at least 20,000 hours before= needing attention=2E I suspect they will run for > 50,000 hours=2E Most cheap, poorly built power supplies survive this long, in light duty=2E Most power supplies can't meet the ratings that they have on their labels, b= ut it doesn't matter most of the time=2E The output needs to get pretty far off= spec=2E or noisy before you will know something's amiss -- unless you test f= or it=2E Most machines have a single HD, a cdrom that gets occasional use and o= ne processor=2E A Toy(tm) power supply can meet the short and long term power n= eeds of this typical box=2E It won't have the cleaner output, the thermal control= or the load regulation of a better supply=2E (I have verified this using test equipment=2E) Listen carefully to a computer with a marginal supply and you can sometimes hear the fan(s) speed up and slow down slightly=2E (They will usually speed = up slightly as the CPU load goes up=2E) Cheap supplies have little if any dedic= ated regulation for the 12V rail=2E Your CPU starts drawing current at 5v or 3=2E= 3v and the switching supply cranks up its' pulse-width to try to hold the high current, CPU rail close to spec=2E=2E This makes the 12V rail rise a little = bit=2E The feedback loop that provides the regulation isn't watching the 12V rail, and without a dedicated regulator for the rail it couldn't do anything about= it anyway=2E But this is good enough most of the time=2E My crappy Winder's box at work does this (Dell Optiplex GS-1)=2E At least De= ll rated the toy for what it is (150W IIRC)=2E I have friends boxes that do this=2E The labels on their supplies say '300W'=2E= Different people will have different opinions of what a 'moderate' amount to= spend on a supply is=2E To me, spending $50 to get a 300W version of the 380= s we have is cost effective and moderate=2E I would spend a little more to run a = pair of Athlon's or PIIIs, multiple drives and a bunch of case fans=2E=2E=2E=2E I would spend $58 to get an Antec case with a 'mid-range' (still Antec, just= not as fancy) 300W supply to build a basic, single CPU machine=2E (Normal workstation, small server or cluster node) I don't have access to any significantly less expensive supplies that would work the same=2E I don't ha= ve the time to look too hard for them either=2E I don't see why people will sometimes pay more than $200 for a 'gaming' power= supply tho=2E A True 380 will run a pair of Athlon's -- no sweat=2E I hate t= o see people spend $30 - $50 or more for a piece of crap supply from Fly's when it= is really a $15 or $20 value=2E The more boxes I build and maintain, the more I am willing to spend a little= extra to get better quality=2E Ten power supplies running will produce failu= res more often than one or two running will=2E - -- KevinO A "few" is an indefinitely small number that conveys a qualitative sense of a= quantity, but not quantitative fact=2E -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1=2E0=2E6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail=2Emozdev=2Eorg iD8DBQE+lS3YjBS1mMJB+bQRAmLsAJ44IZRcNaD2AP/PrVSIk7VIZyu94QCgrcmM PmETgek221d4DjjI/h7yPdc=3D =3Dtwim -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists=2Eplug=2Ephoenix=2Eaz=2Eus To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change you mail settings: http://lists=2EPLUG=2Ephoenix=2Eaz=2Eus/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss