I havent been following the thread for a few days so I am not sure if I understand your problem Mike But I think I do and will tell you about my experience and see if that helps you. I had a winmodem found the device driver and downloaded and installed it. It installed in a really odd place and it was something like /dev/hcf04 or something like that. There was no option in kppp to point to it So I chose dev/modem and it didnt seem to work after a few days of fighting with it I realized That what was go on was because my box is old and slow It was searching for the modem and it would take up to 5 mins to find it. I found that if I used a lite weight WM like blackbox. It would find it very fast I know this isn't the correct way to solve the problem but It allowed me to get online. I now have cable so it doesnt affect me anymore. Hope that help Frank __________________________________________________________________ Try AOL and get 1045 hours FREE for 45 days! http://free.aol.com/tryaolfree/index.adp?375380 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 for FREE! Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promos=380455