Thank you all for the help! When I started to really dig in, I discovered the Mandrake 8.1 I use does indeed have some scripts in /etc/rc.d for farewall stuff! I put in an 'echo' to print a message on boot to wee where it was coming up in. What I saw was the rc.firewall script was executing first, but I saw other messages that again flushed the rules and ended up with a default. Well that default was /etc/sysconfig/iptables was being executed by /etc/rc.d/rc.sysinit. I then discovered I could get the initial rule set up and use 'service iptables save' to save then in the /etc/sysconfig/iptables. I left the rc.firewall as is since it doesn't seem to hurt anything. Now I just have to continue to learn iptables to bring up the security to a respectable level. pete