I would say -- it is better to work for pizza(food) than to work for yet another company that doesn't pay for your work. I was laid off last September then got a Unix/Veritas project, which after a couple of weeks the company ran out of money without paying me a single penny. Any way, I think. I am lucky to get couple of offers in this bad economy and starting my work next Monday. actually with a pay real close to my .com pay and better benefits. There is always light at the end of the tunnel. Sundar On Tue, 4 Dec 2001 19:30:41 -0700 "Linux" wrote: > Hi Matt, > > I've been saying the same thing. If the government could control > the economy we would all be over taxed and very rich. > > I've been threatening to go sell cars for years. Maybe I > will........ > > However we are rich by comparison. > > Keith > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 17:32:32 -0800 (PST) > From: Matt Alexander > To: > Subject: Re: just a little grumble > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > My impression is that the economy grew extremely fast due almost > entirely > to the computer hardware/software industry. Obviously, many > non-tech > companies also benefit from the tech industry doing well since > there's a > lot of services and goods needed to support the growth of the > tech > industry. There were several factors that I see that led to such > a huge > expansion of tech jobs and high salaries, and all of these > factors > coincided at about the same time. > > Y2K: There was a lot of money spent upgrading hardware and > software. > There was also a lot of money spent on consultants and other > support > companies to facilitate the upgrade. Many systems were upgraded > even > though they were already Y2K compliant, just to bring everything > up to the > same performance level. > > The Internet: Every commercial a couple years back had a URL > splashed on > the screen. Nearly everyone thought that the Internet was going > to be > this amazing thing that revolutionized the world. Everyone > thought they > could make a ton of money by simply selling their product over > the web. > Everyone that didn't already have a computer thought that they > needed to > get a computer so they too could do whatever it was that everyone > else was > doing on the Internet. So what does Joe User do with his fancy > computer > and Internet access? He reads and writes email. Maybe if he's > really > advanced then he checks movie times or the latest sport scores on > the Web. > Woopteedoo. Before you try to flame me on this point, realize > that you > are not "Joe User." You're on a Linux mailing list and that puts > you far, > far outside the average. > Probably the most useful feature of the web to me is that I can > easily > make plane reservations (not that I can afford to travel anymore > like I > did during the dotcom days, but that's beside the point). So > there have > been some nice benefits, but hardly anything earth-shattering. > > Hardware performance: Several years ago you could go into a > computer > store, take a computer home and actually notice some difference > in the > performance compared your old system. So let's say Joe User buys > the > latest and greatest Pentium 933 THz computer. Does he notice any > big > difference in how his apps run from his old 350MHz system? Nope. > Not > unless he plays a lot of games. So for almost every software > category > except games, the hardware has vastly exceeded the demands of the > software. Computer hardware is now become a commodity and the > profit > margins are next to nothing. The server market is somewhat > different, but > it's quickly being marginalized as well as the performance from > relatively > cheap Intel chips continues to increase and push the more > expensive > players, such as Sun, into an ultra high-end niche market. > > There are a lot of other minor contributors as well, such as > money being > invested in companies with no good business plan. There was also > an > extreme waste of money during the dotcom days of a year or two > ago. I > worked for two companies that would spend exorbitant amounts of > money > on all sorts of unnecessary purchases, all because they thought > that their > pot of gold would never run out. > > I'm going to really exaggerate and overgeneralize things here and > say that > no one buys software anymore (except games). Have you been to an > Office > Depot lately to see the software choices? Almost nothing of > interest. MS > Office, while a fine product, is horrendously expensive if you > didn't > already get it for free with your computer (or swiped a copy from > work). > So the software industry is pretty much dead, in my opinion. > Microsoft will probably be one of a handful of software companies > still > standing in the next several years. Not because they make good > software, > but because they're big enough and wealthy enough to survive > longer than > the rest. But they too will have to soon make dramatic cuts in > their > workforce to survive. They're losing money on X-box and > customers aren't > interested in upgrading their MS software (and probably couldn't > afford it > anyway) anymore. Microsoft is sort of a macro-example of what > we're going > through. They too were in the right place at the right time and > made > several business choices that brought them to this point. But > they can't > keep up the same levels of financial growth any longer. And > there will > never be another Microsoft because the factors that brought them > where > they are now won't happen again as far as I can tell. > > So where'd all those computer jobs go? They were never really > there. > It's not the fault of our government or anyone else for running > the > economy into the ground. We're in a recession. And we'll > continue to be > in a recession until things return to the levels they were before > Y2K, The > Internet, and Hardware blew things way out of proportion. It was > a bubble > of extreme wealth where a lot of things happened together at the > right > time, but it's over now. > > In any case, I wish everyone that's been laid-off (including > myself) the > best of luck finding a new job. You might seriously look at > going back to > school to try your hand at a different profession. Right now > there are > too many people looking for tech jobs and there will most likely > never be > enough jobs to satisfy them all. > ~M > > > > On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, Nancy Sollars wrote: > > > Hi Guys, > > > > Well looks like this down turn in economy has bitten once more > ... Ive just had a nice chat with my wife and it seems the only > choice ive got is to go and get a job at a fast food restuarant > .. > > > > > > not being funny but i could have dont this back in Bristol.. > Since the economy in the US at the moment sucks so bad im > seriously considering going back to the UK, I think someone up > top should get a reality check and start reading their book on > how to run a country cause im sure im not the only one being > driven to such extremes. > > > > With all my experiance and stuff in IT there is no way in hell > im going to flip burgers it would make no sense of the money and > effort spent on training and courses by myself back in the UK. > > > > How do you all feel about the current situation? > > > > Nige > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > ________________________________________________ > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail. > > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss