Depending on where you are stationed and if you take base housing, that can either be big or nothing. -----Original Message----- From: George Toft [mailto:george@georgetoft.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 11:18 AM To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us Subject: Re: Was Geek Jobs In 1990, I made $27K as an E-6 over 10. As we can see, there is a huge pay raise after the 10 year point, and for being a nuc on a submarine at sea. George Bill Warner wrote: > > Yea I had that same question. I was in from 92-96 and made e4 in > computer repair. I think the most i ever got was around $25k. > > Bill Warner > > On Tue, 2001-11-06 at 07:27, Tom Achtenberg wrote: > > I have to question one of your points. Point 5, what military were you an enlisted person making $50k in? When I was in the USAF in the 80's as a SGT I made between $600 and $700 a MONTH plus housing. That's a far cry from $50k a year. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: George Toft [mailto:george@georgetoft.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 7:04 AM > > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > Subject: Re: Was Geek Jobs > > > > > > (About to show my age . . .) > > > > Using inflation as a benchmark for survival, which we know it is > > actually lower than reality, I present the following data: > > > > Data Point #1: When I was in college studying Electrical Engineering > > and Computer Science, in 1979, the expected starting salary was $20K > > for either field. Using the rule of 72, with the inflation that we > > have experienced since that time, that same starting salary should be > > about $75K. > > > > Data Point #2: The last two jobs I interviewed for in Phoenix gave me a > > speech about paying employees well to keep them around, then informed > > me the positions paid $45-55K for senior people with 5 years of > > experience. (Did not keep up with inflation.) > > > > Data Point #3: Digital Wokan and I applied for the same job just to > > find out it was entry level paying $25-35K. (Did not keep up with > > inflation.) > > > > Data Point #4: My wife made over $40K as a customer service supervisor > > in a Fortune 500 company, and once she gains experience within any > > given company here, will make the same again. (Non-IT benchmark). > > > > Data Point #5: I made over $50K as an enlisted military member, and > > this was considered low. There were people on food stamps that were > > the same rank I was. (Non-IT benchmark). > > > > Data Point #6: 10 years ago, I was applying for IT jobs in Phoenix > > that paid $35-40K. (Historical data.) > > > > Data Point #7: I have seen several jobs that prefer MCSE certification > > or three years experience that pay under $30K. (Did not keep up with > > inflation.) > > > > Conclusion: IT Salaries are becoming inverted. We are entitled to > > make the same money with our degrees as those without. The jobs now > > are paying what they were 10 years ago, yet inflation has cut your > > spending power by $30-40% while taxes have increased. > > > > Projection: In Hawaii, it is common for both husband and wife to > > work, and they usually have working parents living with them. This > > is what is required to make ends meet. I predict that over the next > > 20 years, we will see the same thing become commonplace here in > > mainland America. > > > > > > George > > > > > > P.S. It still beats the living conditions in Afghanistan. > > > > > > > > Trent Shipley wrote: > > > > > > Are computer geeks (outside of webdom) having more unemployment troubles than > > > the rest of the population? The economy sucks for everybody. > > > > > > Maybe its just that this is the first time that computer geeks have really > > > been in sufficient supply relative to demand that they are feeling a > > > recession? > > > > > > Another part of it may be that the computer-geek community really rode the > > > internet bubble in the late 1990's and there are jobs but the pay has come > > > back down into the realm of sanity. The result is that much of Geekdom needs > > > to find salaries that sadly no longer exist. > > > > > > (I am pretty certain that the Pointy Haired Managers and Evil Queens of HR > > > have yet to discover that bright high-school kids can be hired part time to > > > do 50% of the IS/IT workload! [and next 45% can be done by the same kids > > > after they have three to five years of experience]). > > > ________________________________________________ > > > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail. > > > > > > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > ________________________________________________ > > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail. > > > > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > ________________________________________________ > > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail. > > > > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > -- > Bill Warner > Unix/Linux Admin. > Direct Alliance Corporation > > Company required stuff: > > Contents are Direct Alliance Corporation Confidential > > This message is for the designated recipient(s) only and contains > Direct Alliance Corporation privileged and confidential information. > If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately > and delete the original. Any other use of this email is prohibited. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Part 1.2Type: application/pgp-signature ________________________________________________ See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail. PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss