This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C096D9.D62CBE20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ashton-Tate who created dBase found in the mid 80's that their sales = dropped when they started all that copy protect stuff that was popular = at the time. It seems that pirating actually stimulates sales. I think once the masses rise up against M$ and/or some mechanism that = allows for an override, M$ will come to it's senses. Can you imagine = Corporate America being brought to it's knees because they are on hold = waiting for an authentication number to reinstall, while hundreds or = thousands of workers stand idle? I think M$ will be humbled by this. Keith Smith ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Vaughn Treude=20 To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 11:31 AM Subject: Re: NT5 dual boot I definitely agree with Keith on this one. I've tried both, and I = think that trying to put multiple OS's on any single drive just isn't = worth the trouble (unless maybe you're tucking an old version of DOS in = a corner somewhere.) Drives are pretty cheap anyway. I know it's a = waste when you've got one of those huge 20+ gig drives. But there are = still a lot of smaller ones available. (A good cheap source is old = PC's, which people discard as Windows and games get more and more = resource-hungry.)=20 The removable-drive option sounds good (haven't tried it) but I = wouldn't do that unless I had an additional data drive on the system. = I'd keep all my documents, multimedia files, etc., on the fixed one, so = it could be accessed from any OS. Unfortunately it would have to be in = a format that Windows can recognize.=20 Regarding the "why" of dual booting, I've got no problem with using = Windows, as long as you can stomach the frequent crashes of 9* (and Me?) = and/or the hardware limitations of NT. But I was hearing from a = colleague last night about the licensing and distribution changes that = MS is proposing for its next release, Windows XP. They range from = annoying (being forced to register the program to keep it running) to = arrogant (you'll be required to keep a licensing sticker on the machine, = so if you move the drive to a new case you're supposed to buy a new = license) to downright idiotic (end users won't be allowed to install the = OS. You'll have to have a MS technician do that.) Some of these = "anti-piracy" innovations probably depend on the nationwide passage of = UCITA. Others will probably go the way of the "we're merging Windows = 9* into 2000" nonsense. But I'll certainly be less inclined to buy or = use ANYTHING Microsoft, if these things all come to pass.=20 (Please excuse me if you guys already knew this stuff. Sometimes I'm = not paying attention the first time it comes out...)=20 Vaughn Treude=20 CIE-Keith wrote:=20 I had nothing but trouble trying to maintain w95 and Linux on the same = drive. Every time I reinstalled w95 it would overwrite the mbr? and = I=20 would have to play with lilo or reinstall Linux. I spent a week=20 trying to get the two to play nice with each other. I think it is a = windows dominance problem.=20 My solution was to use two hard drives. Things work better however = I=20 think the real solution is two removable hard drives. I will be=20 installing w2k server (NT5?) soon and will be using a removable. I=20 want to use the same box as both a w2k server and a Linux server, on = separate removable drives. Of course this all in the privacy of my=20 home.=20 Keith Smith=20 (not the football player)=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lucas Vogel =20 To: =20 Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 10:15 PM=20 Subject: RE: NT5 dual boot=20 > I have a Sony Vaio laptop with Windows 2000 that I set up with an=20 extra=20 > partition to install TurboLinux, which we got when we bought a hub = for one=20 > of our offices. I could not for the life of me get the LILO to = play=20 well=20 > with NT5 - I'm still not entirely sure why. I never DID get it to=20 work, but=20 > I read up on the MS website on something about a NTDetect.dos file = or=20 > something similarly titled that you can edit to boot into "other=20 operating=20 > systems", though I don't know if that's MS wording for other MS = OS's=20 or=20 > not...=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message-----=20 > From: Eden Li [mailto:eden.li@asu.edu]=20 > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 9:12 PM=20 > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us=20 > Subject: Re: NT5 dual boot=20 >=20 >=20 > Nah, it's not stupid... You probably can.. see the previous = posts..=20 > I prefer LILO over NT's boot loader though..=20 >=20 > Eden=20 >=20 > On Tue, Feb 13, 2001 at 07:11:07PM -0700, CIE-Keith wrote:=20 > > Can you use the NT boot loader also? Please forgive my = ignorance=20 if=20 > > this is a stupid question.=20 >=20 > ________________________________________________=20 > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail=20 doesn't post=20 > to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail.=20 >=20 > Plug-discuss mailing list - = Plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us=20 > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss=20 >=20 > ________________________________________________=20 > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail=20 doesn't post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail. = >=20 > Plug-discuss mailing list - = Plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us=20 > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss=20 ________________________________________________=20 See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail = doesn't post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail.=20 Plug-discuss mailing list - Plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us=20 http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --=20 ***************** Nakota Software, Inc. Custom Industrial Software Development =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C096D9.D62CBE20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ashton-Tate who created dBase found in = the mid 80's=20 that their sales dropped when they started all that copy protect stuff = that was=20 popular at the time.  It seems that pirating actually stimulates=20 sales.
 
I think once the masses rise up against = M$ and/or=20 some mechanism that allows for an override, M$ will come to it's = senses. =20 Can you imagine Corporate America being brought to it's knees because = they are=20 on hold waiting for an authentication number to reinstall, while = hundreds or=20 thousands of workers stand idle?
 
I think M$ will be humbled by = this.
 
Keith Smith
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Vaughn Treude
To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.pho= enix.az.us=20
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, = 2001 11:31=20 AM
Subject: Re: NT5 dual = boot

I definitely agree with Keith on this one.  I've = tried=20 both, and I think that trying to put multiple OS's on any single drive = just=20 isn't worth the trouble (unless maybe you're tucking an old version of = DOS in=20 a corner somewhere.)  Drives are pretty cheap anyway.  I = know it's a=20 waste when you've got one of those huge 20+ gig drives.  But = there are=20 still a lot of smaller ones available.  (A good cheap source is = old PC's,=20 which  people discard as Windows and games get more and more=20 resource-hungry.)=20

The removable-drive option sounds good (haven't tried it) but I = wouldn't do=20 that unless I had an additional data drive on the system.   = I'd keep=20 all my documents, multimedia files, etc., on the fixed one, so it = could be=20 accessed from any OS.  Unfortunately it would have to be in a = format that=20 Windows can recognize.=20

Regarding the "why" of dual booting, I've got no problem with using = Windows, as long as you can stomach the frequent crashes of 9* (and = Me?)=20 and/or the hardware limitations of NT.  But I was hearing from a=20 colleague last night about the licensing and distribution changes that = MS is=20 proposing for its next release, Windows XP.  They range from = annoying=20 (being forced to register the program to keep it running) to arrogant = (you'll=20 be required to keep a licensing sticker on the machine, so if you move = the=20 drive to a new case you're supposed to buy a new license) to downright = idiotic=20 (end users won't be allowed to install the OS.  You'll have to = have a MS=20 technician do that.)  Some of these "anti-piracy" innovations = probably=20 depend on the nationwide passage of UCITA.   Others will = probably go=20 the way of the "we're merging Windows 9* into 2000" nonsense.  = But I'll=20 certainly be less inclined to buy or use ANYTHING Microsoft, if = these=20 things all come to pass.=20

(Please excuse me if you guys already knew this stuff.  = Sometimes I'm=20 not paying attention the first time it comes out...)=20

Vaughn Treude=20

CIE-Keith wrote:
I had nothing but trouble trying to maintain = w95 and=20 Linux on the same=20

drive.  Every time I reinstalled w95 it = would=20 overwrite the mbr? and I
would have to play with lilo or = reinstall=20 Linux.  I spent a week
trying to get the two to play nice = with each=20 other.  I think it is a
windows dominance problem.=20

My solution was to use two hard drives.  Things work better = however=20 I
think the real solution is two removable hard drives.  I = will be=20
installing w2k server (NT5?) soon and will be using a = removable.  I=20
want to use the same box as both a w2k server and a Linux = server, on=20
separate removable drives.  Of course this all in the = privacy of my=20
home.=20

Keith Smith
(not the football player)=20

----- Original Message -----
From: Lucas Vogel=20 <lvogel@exponent.com>
To:=20 <plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us>
Sent: Tuesday, = February=20 13, 2001 10:15 PM
Subject: RE: NT5 dual boot=20

> I have a Sony Vaio laptop with Windows 2000 that I set up = with an=20
extra
> partition to install TurboLinux, which we got = when we=20 bought a hub
for one
> of our offices. I could not for = the life=20 of me get the LILO to play
well
> with NT5 - I'm still = not=20 entirely sure why. I never DID get it to
work, but
> I = read up on=20 the MS website on something about a NTDetect.dos file
or =
>=20 something similarly titled that you can edit to boot into "other=20
operating
> systems", though I don't know if that's MS = wording=20 for other MS OS's
or
> not...
>
>
>=20 -----Original Message-----
> From: Eden Li [mailto:eden.li@asu.edu]
> = Sent:=20 Tuesday, February 13, 2001 9:12 PM
> To:=20 plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
> Subject: Re: NT5 dual = boot=20
>
>
> Nah, it's not stupid... You probably = can.. see=20 the previous posts..
> I prefer LILO over NT's boot loader = though..=20
>
> Eden
>
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2001 at = 07:11:07PM=20 -0700, CIE-Keith wrote:
> > Can you use the NT boot loader = also?  Please forgive my ignorance
if
> > this is = a=20 stupid question.
>
>=20 ________________________________________________
> See http://PLUG.phoen= ix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml=20 if your mail
doesn't post
> to the list quickly and you = use=20 Netscape to write mail.
>
> Plug-discuss mailing = list =20 -  Plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
> ht= tp://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss=20
>
> ________________________________________________ =
>=20 See http://PLUG.phoen= ix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml=20 if your mail
doesn't post to the list quickly and you use = Netscape to=20 write mail.
>
> Plug-discuss mailing list  = - =20 Plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
> ht= tp://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss=20

________________________________________________
See http://PLUG.phoen= ix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml=20 if your mail doesn't post to the list quickly and you use Netscape = to write=20 mail.=20

Plug-discuss mailing list  - =20 Plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
ht= tp://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss

-- 
*****************
Nakota Software, Inc.
Custom Industrial Software Development
  =
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