----- Original Message -----
From: Julian M Catchen <julian@catchen.org>
To: <plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us>
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 3:59 PM
Subject: RE: [OT] -- Fry's and other retailers


> You do not give up your Constitutional rights just because you enter
a
> building.  Our basic rights are inalienable, they are neither
bestowed, nor
> taken away, by men or women.
>
> While Fry's may say that you consented to a search of your
belongings upon
> entering the store, they have no right to detain you, or a legally
> enforceable way to force the check if you simply refuse to let them.
To
> the best of my knowledge, if they think you have broken a law (i.e.
stolen
> merchandise) then they can ask you to wait for the police to arrive.
Only
> the Police have the right to detain you, and only if you are under
arrest
> (many times this is obfuscated to make people wait when they don't
have
> to).   If you refuse to allow the check, then they can sue you in
civil
> court if they really want to.
>

A citizen can make an arrest.  It is covered in Title 13 of the
Arizona Revised Statutes.  I can, as a citizen, detain you for
breaking the law.  I must then turn you over to the police or the
judge.  I would however be very careful.  Most police officers do not
like it if you perform a citizens arrest and may charge you with
kidnapping.  Be very very very very very very very very very very very
careful.

Keith

> Innocent until proven guilty holds because only the Police may
arrest you
> and charge you with a crime.  In all other cases, if an employer of
a store
> thinks you violated their polices they must sue you in civil court.
Only
> the state has a right to sue you in criminal court.  So, if you sign
a
> non-disclosure agreement with your employer, and you talk to the
media
> about something you said you wouldn't, they can't bring criminal
charges
> against you, only sue you for damages.
>
> You are only subject to other's rules and regulations if they are
willing
> to sue you to enforce them.  Or, they can invoke law enforcement and
have
> them prosecute you criminally if you did something they perceive as
really
> wrong.
>
> julian
>
> > Innocent until proven guilty is a principle that applies to
government
> > prosecution and has nothing to do with property rights. It is
absolutely
> > no
> > different than free speech is not a given right while you are
employed by
> > someone else.
> >
> > While it is desirable to wrap yourself with constitutional
protections,
> > those protections are what you are entitled to when dealing with
> > government.
> > While you are are on someone elses property, employed by others or
even
> > posting messages on someone's private forum, you are subject to
their
> > rules
> > and their rights.
> >
> > Craig
> >
> >
>
>
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