As if M$ REALLY is!!!!! ready for primetime.... compared to the well established UNIX platforms... HP, SUN, IBM, M$ sucks the BIG one!!!! Looking at the BIG picture Linux is an early adolescent of a SUN or HP. M$ is not even in the same universe, you are REALLY comparing rocks and peaches! Lynn P. Tilby > -----Original Message----- > From: plug-discuss-admin@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > [SMTP:plug-discuss-admin@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us] > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 9:13 AM > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > Subject: Plug-discuss digest, Vol 1 #442 - 10 msgs > > > Send Plug-discuss mailing list submissions to > plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > plug-discuss-request@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > You can reach the person managing the list at > plug-discuss-admin@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than > "Re: Contents of Plug-discuss digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. RE: New business startup help/suggestions/info needed (Lucas Vogel) > 2. RE: New business startup help/suggestions/info needed (rleonard) > 3. Re: FW: Why Open Source Sucks for the Consumer (Nathan Saper) > 4. Re: FW: Why Open Source Sucks for the Consumer (Shawn T. Rutledge) > 5. Re: FW: Why Open Source Sucks for the Consumer > (linux@integertech.com) > 6. Re: FW: Why Open Source Sucks for the Consumer (John W) > 7. Re: FW: Why Open Source Sucks for the Consumer (der.hans) > 8. mp3 bitrate (sinck@ugive.com) > 9. Re: New business startup help/suggestions/info needed > (sinck@ugive.com) > 10. New business startup help/suggestions/info needed (Tilby, Lynn # > PHX) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > From: Lucas Vogel > To: "'plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us'" > > Subject: RE: New business startup help/suggestions/info needed > Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 12:17:40 -0700 > charset="iso-8859-1" > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > uh...while I share a love for good barbeque with my fellow PLUGers, I do > think we're really getting off-topic here... > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan Dayley [mailto:alandd@consultpros.com] > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 9:28 AM > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > Subject: Re: New business startup help/suggestions/info needed > > > Joe's Real Barbecue, to the annoyance of some people, got a zoning > variance > to build two smoking ovens. I don't remember what hard wood they use, it > is not oak or mesquite though... I'm drawing a blank. > > IMO the zoning variance was worth it! > > Alan > > At 11:16 AM 8/27/00 -0400, you wrote: > >Allright I'll have to go check it out. I was thinking about it last night > >some more. Probably, why there aren't more barbeque places in Phoenix is > the > >ready lack of slow-burning live-oak or post-oak wood. Pine burns too > quick, > >and there's not that much of it here in town, and mesquite, although > >slower-burning tends to come in little sticks that burns too quickly. > Also, > >it's probably too hot to have decent outdoor brick overs here of any > size. > > > >Keith Deterling > > > >________________________________________________ > >See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't > >post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail. > > > >Plug-discuss mailing list - Plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > >http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > ________________________________________________ > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't > post > to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail. > > Plug-discuss mailing list - Plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > --__--__-- > > Message: 2 > From: "rleonard" > To: > Subject: RE: New business startup help/suggestions/info needed > Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 12:47:09 -0700 > charset="iso-8859-1" > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > not if the smoking ovens are gpl (good pork loin) and open sourced.... > > -----Original Message----- > > >uh...while I share a love for good barbeque with my fellow PLUGers, I do > >think we're really getting off-topic here... > > > >>Joe's Real Barbecue, to the annoyance of some people, got a zoning > variance > >>to build two smoking ovens. I don't remember what hard wood they use, > it > >>is not oak or mesquite though... I'm drawing a blank. > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 20:43:56 +0000 (GMT) > From: Nathan Saper > To: PLUG-Discuss > Subject: Re: FW: Why Open Source Sucks for the Consumer > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Sun, 27 Aug 2000, J.L.Francois wrote: > > > Looks like a case of RTFM. > > See my rant below. > > > > It seems like on Sat, Aug 26, 2000 at 09:53:13PM -0700, Lucas Vogel > scribbled: > > Orig Msg> > > Orig Msg> > Linux is not only not ready for prime time its not even > ready for > > Orig Msg> > pay-per-view. > > Orig Msg> > > Orig Msg> Hear, hear. Amen. > > Orig Msg> > > Orig Msg> I *still* haven't figured out how to tell my machine the > proper > > Orig Msg> timezone (there's a configuration program that appears to let > me set > > Orig Msg> it, but it's utterly ignored). > > > > Linux is ready for the Prime Time depending on what you use it for. > > > > I have 9 Debian Linux machines humming along nicely serving various > > server functions with no issues on X86 and Sparc hardware. > > > > I do not wast energy trying to get my Linux installations to > > behave like my Windows installation. > > > [snip] > > I guess we shouldn't be surprised. IIRC, Python was first developed on a > Macintosh. > > - -- > > Nathan Saper > natedog@well.com (PGP) > http://www.well.com/user/natedog/ > PGP Key ID: 9AD0F382 > PGP Key Fingerprint: 743D FE2C 7F2E 7CAE 4A5F 0B19 D855 B205 9AD0 F382 > Fidonet: 1:114/59.10 > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: pgpenvelope 2.9.0 - http://pgpenvelope.sourceforge.net/ > > iD8DBQE5qX2S2FWyBZrQ84IRAsPcAJ9i20UOmlnLqIT5NUl10Zvcd3Q7FQCgkxhH > N5drrsTSLsmq9t99ezgxXjk= > =fh1D > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 14:54:22 -0700 > From: "Shawn T. Rutledge" > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > Subject: Re: FW: Why Open Source Sucks for the Consumer > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > > From: Guido van Rossum [mailto:guido@beopen.com] > > > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 11:18 AM > > > To: Jean Camp > > > Cc: fsb@crynwr.com > > > Subject: Re: Why Open Source Sucks for the Consumer > > > > > > > > > > Linux is not only not ready for prime time its not even ready for > > > > pay-per-view. > > > > > > Hear, hear. Amen. > > > > > > I *still* haven't figured out how to tell my machine the proper > > > timezone (there's a configuration program that appears to let me set > > > it, but it's utterly ignored). > > I never had any trouble with doing that during initial setup, but > I'm not sure how to change it without RTFMing. On a Debian system, > at least you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it will be under > /etc somewhere. > > > > > > Floppy management is pathetic (the default in this -- commercially > > > "supported") version isn't even good to read/write DOS floppies, the > > > only relevant exchange format). > > Well I always thought it'd be nice if something would detect insertion > of a floppy and try to mount it automatically, instead of that being a > separate operation. I know it should be possible; floppy drives have > a switch which the OS can read the state of, telling whether there is > a disk or not. But the problem with that idea is that you can also > eject the disk manually. The Mac got it right - there is no way you > can eject the disk without involving the OS in the process, therefore > it will have a chance to do any last-minute writing beforehand. > > As it is, I have the Gnome mount buttons on my panel for all my > removable-media drives, and it's not too bad to have to click on it > to mount or unmount the disk. > > > > > > I can't sync my palmpilot -- there's an application, but configuration > > > is impossible and there's no information. > > I've used both packages available for that, and started writing a > nettebook conduit sometime last year, but never finished it. The Java > one was quite friendly, it just didn't have any conduits written for it > yet, at the time; by now there probably are some. But it should be > available as a Debian package. And Java stuff in general is not going > to fit well into the "desktop" until you no longer need a whole separate > VM instance for each application that you run; it's silly. I don't know > why Sun hasn't tried to push some kind of standard for that yet - running > multiple applications, each with their own "main", in a single VM, by > a command-line means. > > PalmPilots may be irrelevant in a year or two, if Linux-based PDAs take > over. But it could turn into a living hell too, if the only thing they > have in common is Linux; so far they're all separate development efforts > with incompatible GUI systems (one uses Java, one uses X) and incompatible > applications. And I could see them taking different approaches to things > like the filesystem too (which filesystem? do you put it in memory or > FLASH? or do you ditch it altogether and just assume that since memory > is nonvolatile, applications are started once, run forever with no bugs > and no memory leaks, and there is no need to "save" data onto "disk", > only to back it up to your desktop machine.) > > -- > _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com > (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org > __) | | \________________________________________________________________ > Get money for spare CPU cycles at http://www.ProcessTree.com/?sponsor=5903 > > --__--__-- > > Message: 5 > From: linux@integertech.com > Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 15:52:45 -0700 (MST) > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > Subject: Re: FW: Why Open Source Sucks for the Consumer > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > > >>>Linux is not only not ready for prime time its not even ready for > >>>pay-per-view. > > When speaking of the server this is patently false; when speaking of the > desktop, it is completely accurate, but with a few qualifications. If > "prime time" means an ordinary end-user (your barber or your mom), then, > imho, no, linux is not ready for "prime time." > > All of us know that 'end-users'(remember, your barber or your mom): > > a) never want to leave the mouse. > b) want wizards to do everything for them. > c) don't want to read documentation for 2 hours to find out how to change > something. (I should amend that to "don't want to read documentation even > to save their own lives.") > d) want to use a computer for a specific task (email, web, MP3s) and don't > _want_ to know how or why the computer does what it does. > e) fear the command line > e) uh, the list is endless... > > Is linux 'ready' for that? No. The real question is _should_ linux be > made to accomodate the end-user in those ways. I think there is a segment > of the community that doesn't want linux ever to be "user friendly" _in > those ways_. > > Now this is the part where someone says "X can be used in just the ways > you describe." My only answer to that is "sit your barber in front of X > and see what happens." > > What I've stated above has nothing to do with Windows. (well, yes it > does ;) ). I would not call Windows "user-friendly" either, but it all > depends on your definition of "user-friendly." My definition of > user-friendly (and prob. yours) is much different from your barber's. > > My definition of user-friendly is "flexible, well-documented, with > everything under my direct control." > > Your proverbial barber wants a black-box that does things _for_ him: he > wants a AOL. He obviously doesn't want what's "best," he wants what' > s _easy_. > > And yes, part of the problem is that people have had Windows and nothing > else for so long that they want everything else to work in the same way > (interface-wise). > > just my 2 cents... > > todd > > > -- > > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 6 > From: "John W" > To: > Subject: Re: FW: Why Open Source Sucks for the Consumer > Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 17:55:55 -0700 > charset="iso-8859-1" > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > I think you all have made some very valid points in defense of open > source. > I also see the validity in the original posters viewpoint. I was weened on > windows and found some of the way things work in linux to be irritating at > first. Personally it took me a month of experimenting with Mandrake 7.1 > (that I bought) and it never did run to give up and try some other > flavors > of Linux.Then went back to Mandrake tried an ftp install which worked > perfectly the first time. I persevered with it in light of throwing my > hands > up and walking away a number of times. I believe if you really are > interested in computers linux is the perfect O/S because of the incredble > capabilities contained within. linux is especially user friendly if you > like > to program and want to customize your O/S to your own machine/preferences > try that with windows huh? Anyways Linux is an adventure to me and I'm > enjoying it. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 3:52 PM > Subject: Re: FW: Why Open Source Sucks for the Consumer > > > > > > > > >>>Linux is not only not ready for prime time its not even ready for > > >>>pay-per-view. > > > > When speaking of the server this is patently false; when speaking of the > > desktop, it is completely accurate, but with a few qualifications. If > > "prime time" means an ordinary end-user (your barber or your mom), then, > > imho, no, linux is not ready for "prime time." > > > > All of us know that 'end-users'(remember, your barber or your mom): > > > > a) never want to leave the mouse. > > b) want wizards to do everything for them. > > c) don't want to read documentation for 2 hours to find out how to > change > > something. (I should amend that to "don't want to read documentation > even > > to save their own lives.") > > d) want to use a computer for a specific task (email, web, MP3s) and > don't > > _want_ to know how or why the computer does what it does. > > e) fear the command line > > e) uh, the list is endless... > > > > Is linux 'ready' for that? No. The real question is _should_ linux be > > made to accomodate the end-user in those ways. I think there is a > segment > > of the community that doesn't want linux ever to be "user friendly" _in > > those ways_. > > > > Now this is the part where someone says "X can be used in just the ways > > you describe." My only answer to that is "sit your barber in front of X > > and see what happens." > > > > What I've stated above has nothing to do with Windows. (well, yes it > > does ;) ). I would not call Windows "user-friendly" either, but it all > > depends on your definition of "user-friendly." My definition of > > user-friendly (and prob. yours) is much different from your barber's. > > > > My definition of user-friendly is "flexible, well-documented, with > > everything under my direct control." > > > > Your proverbial barber wants a black-box that does things _for_ him: he > > wants a AOL. He obviously doesn't want what's "best," he wants what' > > s _easy_. > > > > And yes, part of the problem is that people have had Windows and nothing > > else for so long that they want everything else to work in the same way > > (interface-wise). > > > > just my 2 cents... > > > > todd > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________ > > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't > post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail. > > > > Plug-discuss mailing list - Plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 7 > Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 02:39:38 -0700 (MST) > From: "der.hans" > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > Subject: Re: FW: Why Open Source Sucks for the Consumer > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > Am 27. Aug, 2000 schwäzte linux@integertech.com so: > > > All of us know that 'end-users'(remember, your barber or your mom): > > Uh, what's a barber? ;-) > > > a) never want to leave the mouse. > > It's so much fun to give them 3 buttons :). > > > b) want wizards to do everything for them. > > c) don't want to read documentation for 2 hours to find out how to > change > > something. (I should amend that to "don't want to read documentation > even > > to save their own lives.") > > d) want to use a computer for a specific task (email, web, MP3s) and > don't > > _want_ to know how or why the computer does what it does. > > They don't even want to find out what programs to use, so the window > managers should come with icons that have titles like "play mp3s", "write > a document", "web browser", "open a beer", "read email". These can then > link to whatever default app does the described. If there isn't an app > that does whatever, open Xemacs. If that doesn't do it, they'll be far too > confused to find out ;-). > > ciao, > > der.hans > -- > # der.hans@LuftHans.com home.pages.de/~lufthans/ www.Opnix.com > # It's up to the reader to make the book interesting. > # An author has only the opportunity to make it uninteresting. - der.hans > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 8 > From: sinck@ugive.com > Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:55:43 -0700 (MST) > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > Subject: mp3 bitrate > Reply-To: sinck@ugive.com > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > > \_ Does anyone know of a CLI command that will return the bitrate of an > mp3? I > \_ want to create a list of all of my mp3's with their bitrates appended > at the > \_ end of the names. > > Try freshmeat 'mp3info', iirc. > > David > > --__--__-- > > Message: 9 > From: sinck@ugive.com > Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:59:18 -0700 (MST) > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > Subject: Re: New business startup help/suggestions/info needed > <20000826115549.K5016@electron.quantum.int> > Reply-To: sinck@ugive.com > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > \_ Computers and BBQ wouldn't mix too well... too messy. > > Get a splash guard/membrane layover like they have in automotive > industries...proof against many man-made and most biodegradable > substances. The scary part would be "is the membrane clean enough to > type on then eat with those same fingers?" > > David > > --__--__-- > > Message: 10 > From: "Tilby, Lynn # PHX" > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > Subject: New business startup help/suggestions/info needed > Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 09:12:00 -0700 > charset="iso-8859-1" > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > Cyber-Cafe suggestions: > > Try Malls & the airport... I recently tried to use a terminal connection > place at SLC airport and found out they had only been open a couple of > weeks > and were overbooked! A cyber-cafe at each terminal building in the > Airport > I think would do VERY well! > > Put together a spread sheet. Cross your t's and dot your i's! If you > are > disabled you should have NO! problem finding funding all over the > place!!!! > The ONLY problem is filling out all the paper work! This is doable!! > > Lynn P. Tilby > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: plug-discuss-admin@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > [SMTP:plug-discuss-admin@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us] > > Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 8:58 AM > > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > Subject: Plug-discuss digest, Vol 1 #436 - 18 msgs > > > > > > Send Plug-discuss mailing list submissions to > > plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > plug-discuss-request@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > plug-discuss-admin@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than > > "Re: Contents of Plug-discuss digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: Linux Today (Jim) > > 2. python: string.replace(..) won't work (Lucas Vogel) > > 3. Re: diffing special chars (plug@arcticmail.com) > > 4. Re: diffing special chars (plug@arcticmail.com) > > 5. RE: python: string.replace(..) won't work (Lucas Vogel) > > 6. DeCSS Time-Warner Hypocrisy (Mike Cantrell) > > 7. Re: DeCSS Time-Warner Hypocrisy (Jim) > > 8. Re: python: string.replace(..) won't work (der.hans) > > 9. Re: diffing special chars (der.hans) > > 10. Re: diffing special chars (der.hans) > > 11. JLF = Kibo ? (Dennis Sacks) > > 12. Re: JLF = Kibo ? (Alan Dayley) > > 13. RE: JLF = Kibo ? (Michael Sheldon) > > 14. RE: diffing special chars (Lucas Vogel) > > 15. The Linux Drivers Petition (Lucas Vogel) > > 16. New business startup help/suggestions/info needed (Hawke) > > 17. Re: JLF = Kibo ? (J.L.Francois) > > 18. Re: New business startup help/suggestions/info needed (Dennis > Sacks) > > > > -- __--__-- > > > > Message: 1 > > From: Jim > > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > Subject: Re: Linux Today > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 12:24:53 -0700 > > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > > Never mind - it seems to be back up and running > > > > On Fri, 25 Aug 2000, you wrote: > > > Anyone else having trouble getting to the linuxtoday.com website? > > > -- > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > Always practice safe HEX > > > > > > ________________________________________________ > > > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail > doesn't > > post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail. > > > > > > Plug-discuss mailing list - Plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > -- > > > > Jim > > > > Always practice safe HEX > > > > -- __--__-- > > > > Message: 2 > > From: Lucas Vogel > > To: plug1 > > Subject: python: string.replace(..) won't work > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 12:54:18 -0700 > > charset="iso-8859-1" > > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > > Could someone take a look at this and tell me what's wrong at > > string.replace()? > > > > #Begin code--------------------- > > > > import string, os, sys, re > > > > fName = sys.argv[1] > > s1 = sys.argv[2] > > s2 = sys.argv[3] > > > > f=open(fName,'rw') > > > > s=f.read() > > > > print "string.replace(" + `s` + ", " + `s1` + ", " + `s2` + ")" > > string.replace(s,s1,s2) > > > > > > print "s is now: " + `s` + "\n" > > > > > > #end code----------------------- > > > > Thanks > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > > Lucas Vogel, Software Developer > > LandWarrior Project > > Exponent Inc. > > lvogel@exponent.com > > phone: (623)587-6739 > > fax: (623)587-4187 > > ------------www.exponent.com--------------- > > > > -- __--__-- > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:18:04 -0700 > > From: plug@arcticmail.com > > To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > > Subject: Re: diffing special chars > > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > > > > Seems odd that GNU "diff -r" won't recursively diff > > the dirs (akin to "dircmp") without choking on filenames > > that have evil characters. The GNU stuff is usually > > pretty good. > > > > Instead of "tr", could you tell GNU find not to do its > > shell metacharacter autoescaping thing, and pipe find's > > output through "strings -a" to strip out the evil > > characters? > > > > Admittedly, the perl solutions are MUCH better, but > > this technique might "get you by." > > > > > > D > > > > * On Thu, Aug 24, 2000 at 05:58:08PM -0700, der.hans wrote: > > > Am 24. Aug, 2000 schwäzte shadoiOsoulmachine.com so: > > > > > > > Maybe piping the output from ls -b or find to tr with some options > > > > would do the trick.. Maybe using grep to pull out only the ones you > > > > want to fix for speed.. > > > > > > With tr I have to take into account all the special chars :(. It won't > > > change "\ " into " ", since it only works on single chars. Rod's > > > suggestion of sed looks like it should work, if I can get sed to > behave > > > the way it seems it should or failing that find out how sed actually > > > behaves :). That would actually fix something else for me as well. > > > > > > For now I'm using perl on the file after it was created. Already had > to > > do > > > that for something else, so it's not a great sin, just something else > to > > > try to move back to shell later on :). > > > > > > ciao, > > > > > > der.hans > > > -- > > > H der.hansOLuftHans.com home.pages.de/~lufthans/ www.Opnix.com > > > H Help Jerry Lewis stamp out M$...oops that's MDA - der.hans > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________ > > > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail > doesn't > > post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail. > > > > > > Plug-discuss mailing list - Plug-discussOlists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > -- __--__-- > > > > Message: 4 > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:28:55 -0700 > > From: plug@arcticmail.com > > To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > > Subject: Re: diffing special chars > > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > > > > Regex Law One: > > > > One can easily create a regex. > > > > Regex Law Two: > > > > In the time required to decipher a regex, > > even a regex written by yourself, one could > > have created a new regex from scratch in > > one-tenth the time, because of Law One. > > > > > > D > > > > * On Thu, Aug 24, 2000 at 08:24:21PM -0700, J.L.Francois wrote: > > > I just took a look thru my copy of > > > Mastering Regular Expressions ( O'Reilly ) a.k.a The Owl Book. > > > > > > It looks like this can be done in bash but I am not willing to spend > > > the time creating something that no one will ever be able to > > > read or modify. It looks a lot easier in Perl. > > > > > > Trust me, anyone that has done RegExp scripting knows what I mean > > > when I say a regexp takes one week to being incomprehensible. > > > > > > Get the book and give it a shot. It should be worth it. > > > > > > JLF Sends... > > > > > > It seems like on Thu, Aug 24, 2000 at 05:58:08PM -0700, der.hans > > scribbled: > > > Orig Msg> Am 24. Aug, 2000 schwäzte shadoi@soulmachine.com so: > > > Orig Msg> > > > Orig Msg> > Maybe piping the output from ls -b or find to tr with some > > options > > > Orig Msg> > would do the trick.. Maybe using grep to pull out only the > > ones you > > > Orig Msg> > want to fix for speed.. > > > Orig Msg> > > > Orig Msg> With tr I have to take into account all the special chars > :(. > > It won't > > > Orig Msg> change "\ " into " ", since it only works on single chars. > > Rod's > > > Orig Msg> suggestion of sed looks like it should work, if I can get > sed > > to behave > > > Orig Msg> the way it seems it should or failing that find out how sed > > actually > > > Orig Msg> behaves :). That would actually fix something else for me as > > well. > > > Orig Msg> > > > Orig Msg> For now I'm using perl on the file after it was created. > > Already had to do > > > Orig Msg> that for something else, so it's not a great sin, just > > something else to > > > Orig Msg> try to move back to shell later on :). > > > Orig Msg> > > > Orig Msg> ciao, > > > Orig Msg> > > > Orig Msg> der.hans > > > > > > ________________________________________________ > > > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail > doesn't > > post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail. > > > > > > Plug-discuss mailing list - Plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > -- __--__-- > > > > Message: 5 > > From: Lucas Vogel > > To: plug1 > > Subject: RE: python: string.replace(..) won't work > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:30:55 -0700 > > charset="iso-8859-1" > > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > > Holy cow! Talk about dumb mistakes. I need to catch the output from > > string.replace into another variable. Sorry for the traffic, everyone. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Lucas Vogel > > > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 12:54 PM > > > To: plug1 > > > Subject: python: string.replace(..) won't work > > > > > > > > > Could someone take a look at this and tell me what's wrong at > > > string.replace()? > > > > > > #Begin code--------------------- > > > > > > import string, os, sys, re > > > > > > fName = sys.argv[1] > > > s1 = sys.argv[2] > > > s2 = sys.argv[3] > > > > > > f=open(fName,'rw') > > > > > > s=f.read() > > > > > > print "string.replace(" + `s` + ", " + `s1` + ", " + `s2` + ")" > > > string.replace(s,s1,s2) > > > > > > > > > print "s is now: " + `s` + "\n" > > > > > > > > > #end code----------------------- > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > > > Lucas Vogel, Software Developer > > > LandWarrior Project > > > Exponent Inc. > > > lvogel@exponent.com > > > phone: (623)587-6739 > > > fax: (623)587-4187 > > > ------------www.exponent.com--------------- > > > > > > > -- __--__-- > > > > Message: 6 > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 15:35:05 -0700 (MST) > > From: Mike Cantrell > > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > Subject: DeCSS Time-Warner Hypocrisy > > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > > This was just posted on slashdot.. I love the irony... apparently CNN > > (owned by Time-Warner) linked to a list of DeCSS mirrors: > > > > > http://scriptingnews.userland.com/backIssues/2000/08/25#anotherProblemForT > > imewarner > > > > Regards, > > Mike Cantrell > > > > > > -- __--__-- > > > > Message: 7 > > From: Jim > > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > Subject: Re: DeCSS Time-Warner Hypocrisy > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 15:51:24 -0700 > > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > > The link is now gone, but it does point to the total hipocracy of the > > $-brubbers. Another interesting point to consider is the amicus briefs > > filed supporting (?) Napster's position right below the CNN story. > > > > (both are posted on slashdot) > > > > On Fri, 25 Aug 2000, you wrote: > > > This was just posted on slashdot.. I love the irony... apparently CNN > > > (owned by Time-Warner) linked to a list of DeCSS mirrors: > > > > > > > > > http://scriptingnews.userland.com/backIssues/2000/08/25#anotherProblemForT > > imewarner > > > > > > Regards, > > > Mike Cantrell > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________ > > > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail > doesn't > > post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail. > > > > > > Plug-discuss mailing list - Plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > -- > > > > Jim > > > > Always practice safe HEX > > > > -- __--__-- > > > > Message: 8 > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 17:11:19 -0700 (MST) > > From: "der.hans" > > To: plug1 > > Subject: Re: python: string.replace(..) won't work > > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > > Am 25. Aug, 2000 schwäzte Lucas Vogel so: > > > > > Could someone take a look at this and tell me what's wrong at > > > string.replace()? > > > > Lucas, > > > > you should drop these questions on the devel list :). Can't help you > with > > python, though :(. Maybe we should see if Jiva is Kiboizing as well as > JLF > > :). > > > > I'll leave the junk at the bottom for once, just in case he is... > > > > ciao, > > > > der.hans > > > > > #Begin code--------------------- > > > > > > import string, os, sys, re > > > > > > fName = sys.argv[1] > > > s1 = sys.argv[2] > > > s2 = sys.argv[3] > > > > > > f=open(fName,'rw') > > > > > > s=f.read() > > > > > > print "string.replace(" + `s` + ", " + `s1` + ", " + `s2` + ")" > > > string.replace(s,s1,s2) > > > > > > > > > print "s is now: " + `s` + "\n" > > > > > > > > > #end code----------------------- > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > > > Lucas Vogel, Software Developer > > > LandWarrior Project > > > Exponent Inc. > > > lvogel@exponent.com > > > phone: (623)587-6739 > > > fax: (623)587-4187 > > > ------------www.exponent.com--------------- > > > > > > ________________________________________________ > > > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail > doesn't > > post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail. > > > > > > Plug-discuss mailing list - Plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > > > > -- > > # der.hans@LuftHans.com home.pages.de/~lufthans/ www.Opnix.com > > # Knowledge is useless unless it's shared. - der.hans > > > > > > -- __--__-- > > > > Message: 9 > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 17:16:26 -0700 (MST) > > From: "der.hans" > > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > Subject: Re: diffing special chars > > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > > Am 25. Aug, 2000 schwäzte sinck@ugive.com so: > > > > > > > > \_ For now I'm using perl on the file after it was created. Already > had > > to do > > > \_ that for something else, so it's not a great sin, just something > else > > to > > > \_ try to move back to shell later on :). > > > > > > You make it sound so hard: > > > > > > lartmebofh% perl foo.pl > > > <...> > > > lartmebofh% cat > foo.sh > > > #!/bin/sh > > > > > > perl foo.pl > > > ^D > > > lartmebofh% chmod +x foo.sh > > > lartmebofh% foo.sh > > > <...> > > > lartmebofh% > > > > > > simple as pie. > > > > Not for the newbie trying to understand what's going on, which is the > > point of the exercise :). > > > > ciao, > > > > der.hans > > -- > > # der.hans@LuftHans.com home.pages.de/~lufthans/ www.Opnix.com > > # Knowledge is useless unless it's shared. - der.hans > > > > > > -- __--__-- > > > > Message: 10 > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 17:30:31 -0700 (MST) > > From: "der.hans" > > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > Subject: Re: diffing special chars > > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > > Am 25. Aug, 2000 schwäzte Kevin Buettner so: > > > > > I used to do a lot of shell programming. I don't anymore. If I find > > > myself writing a shell script that ends up being longer than six lines > > > (or so), I switch to Perl. > > > > I'm moving that direction. I'll admit, however, that I make a lot of > > system calls in my nukeandpuke perl scripts :). > > > > > I'm puzzled by this statement. In the script I sent, you ended up > > > with the names of all of the files in a single (array) variable so > > > they could be sorted later on. The actual contents of the files were > > > never actually read. Surely you don't mean that your filename data is > > > 60+MB, do you? > > > > Yup. I'm not talking about the contents of the files, but I like David's > > compression mechanism. I'll have to ask him more about it ;-). I'm doing > a > > listing of everything on the system, which then goes for backups. Most > > people (and myself most of the time) won't have this much, but right now > I > > do :). Ever seen a shell using 150MB of memory? :) It's a great way to > > kill init... > > > > The only reason I mentioned it was file listings instead of just being > > random, but in the same order, strings is that I'm interested in getting > > find and tar to list the files the same way. > > > > Oh, and yes, I know this ain't the best way to do this computer-wise, > but > > I'm trying to get something simple that beginners can sink they're teeth > > into. > > > > > Regardless, you really do need to do the sort, because you can't rely > > > on find (or Perl's File::Find) to list the files in any particular > > > order. If you want to diff two lists of files to see what's been > > > > Actually, I do fine. Things get written in the original order, then read > > back in the order they were written, so I'm fine. > > > > > added or deleted, you'll need to do some ordering on the list. You > > > > The goal is for the lists to be the same. Once I have the failover > working > > I'll see if a checksum works right when they do match, but the failover > > has to work and I have to get everything written in the same format. > > > > > don't need to sort in perl though. You could just use the sort > program, > > > but AFAIK, the data will still end up in memory. > > > > Yup. > > > > BTW, this went to discuss instead of devel because I thought it more of > a > > "how to config tar and find to work the same" rather than a devel > > question. Guess I was wrong :). > > > > ciao, > > > > der.hans > > -- > > # der.hans@LuftHans.com home.pages.de/~lufthans/ www.Opnix.com > > # The only way for a woman to change a man > > # is if he's wearing Depends[TM] - der.hans > > > > > > -- __--__-- > > > > Message: 11 > > From: "Dennis Sacks" > > To: > > Subject: JLF = Kibo ? > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:28:21 -0700 > > charset="iso-8859-1" > > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > > > > > > > Hehe...gotta be careful where you say you're kiboizing. :-) > > > > > > > Sadly, how many people on the Internet these days even know who Kibo is? > > > > Dennis Sacks > > dennis@illusions.com > > Managed Services Geek, OpNIX, Inc. www.opnix.com > > > > > > -- __--__-- > > > > Message: 12 > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 22:28:19 -0700 > > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > From: Alan Dayley > > Subject: Re: JLF = Kibo ? > > > > <14758.35676.914433.130415@owmyeye.ugive.com> > > <20000825090152.03102@magusnet.com> > > <14758.40314.285877.475803@owmyeye.ugive.com> > > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > > I admit to being on the internet for at least 7 years and still not > > knowing > > who Kibo is. Enlighten me please. > > > > Alan, Computer Knowledgeable Linux Newbie > > > > At 09:28 AM 8/25/00 -0700, you wrote: > > > > > > > > Hehe...gotta be careful where you say you're kiboizing. :-) > > > > > > > > > >Sadly, how many people on the Internet these days even know who Kibo > is? > > > > > >Dennis Sacks > > >dennis@illusions.com > > >Managed Services Geek, OpNIX, Inc. www.opnix.com > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________ > > >See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't > > > >post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail. > > > > > >Plug-discuss mailing list - Plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > >http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > > > -- __--__-- > > > > Message: 13 > > From: "Michael Sheldon" > > To: > > Subject: RE: JLF = Kibo ? > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:11:09 -0700 > > charset="iso-8859-1" > > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > > Kibo was the god of grep. > > > > He had a routine that would search the newsgroups, *ALL* of the > > newsgroups, > > for any mention of his name, to which you would get a reply. > > > > I got my first shell account about 8-9 years ago, and he was net.legend > > then. > > > > Michael J. Sheldon > > http://www.desertraven.com/ > > Make a fast friend, adopt a greyhound! > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: plug-discuss-admin@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > [mailto:plug-discuss-admin@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us]On Behalf Of Alan > > Dayley > > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 22:28 > > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > Subject: Re: JLF = Kibo ? > > > > > > I admit to being on the internet for at least 7 years and still not > > knowing > > who Kibo is. Enlighten me please. > > > > Alan, Computer Knowledgeable Linux Newbie > > > > At 09:28 AM 8/25/00 -0700, you wrote: > > > > > > > > Hehe...gotta be careful where you say you're kiboizing. :-) > > > > > > > > > >Sadly, how many people on the Internet these days even know who Kibo > is? > > > > > >Dennis Sacks > > >dennis@illusions.com > > >Managed Services Geek, OpNIX, Inc. www.opnix.com > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________ > > >See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't > > >post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail. > > > > > >Plug-discuss mailing list - Plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > >http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > > > ________________________________________________ > > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't > > post > > to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail. > > > > Plug-discuss mailing list - Plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > > > -- __--__-- > > > > Message: 14 > > From: Lucas Vogel > > To: "'plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us'" > > > > Subject: RE: diffing special chars > > Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 00:06:14 -0700 > > charset="iso-8859-15" > > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > > I bet there is a python function somewhere waiting for you to stumble on > > it! > > :) I spend about a half a day today trying to figure out how to use > python > > for a really dinky little script, but I really came away very impressed > > with > > the sheer power of the language. I am a fan, and I will double my > efforts > > to > > use it wherever possible in my Win32 environment at work, and definitely > > at > > home in my 100% Linux environment. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: der.hans [mailto:PLUGd@lufthans.com] > > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 5:31 PM > > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > Subject: Re: diffing special chars > > > > > > Am 25. Aug, 2000 schwäzte Kevin Buettner so: > > > > > I used to do a lot of shell programming. I don't anymore. If I find > > > myself writing a shell script that ends up being longer than six lines > > > (or so), I switch to Perl. > > > > I'm moving that direction. I'll admit, however, that I make a lot of > > system calls in my nukeandpuke perl scripts :). > > > > > I'm puzzled by this statement. In the script I sent, you ended up > > > with the names of all of the files in a single (array) variable so > > > they could be sorted later on. The actual contents of the files were > > > never actually read. Surely you don't mean that your filename data is > > > 60+MB, do you? > > > > Yup. I'm not talking about the contents of the files, but I like David's > > compression mechanism. I'll have to ask him more about it ;-). I'm doing > a > > listing of everything on the system, which then goes for backups. Most > > people (and myself most of the time) won't have this much, but right now > I > > do :). Ever seen a shell using 150MB of memory? :) It's a great way to > > kill init... > > > > The only reason I mentioned it was file listings instead of just being > > random, but in the same order, strings is that I'm interested in getting > > find and tar to list the files the same way. > > > > Oh, and yes, I know this ain't the best way to do this computer-wise, > but > > I'm trying to get something simple that beginners can sink they're teeth > > into. > > > > > Regardless, you really do need to do the sort, because you can't rely > > > on find (or Perl's File::Find) to list the files in any particular > > > order. If you want to diff two lists of files to see what's been > > > > Actually, I do fine. Things get written in the original order, then read > > back in the order they were written, so I'm fine. > > > > > added or deleted, you'll need to do some ordering on the list. You > > > > The goal is for the lists to be the same. Once I have the failover > working > > I'll see if a checksum works right when they do match, but the failover > > has to work and I have to get everything written in the same format. > > > > > don't need to sort in perl though. You could just use the sort > program, > > > but AFAIK, the data will still end up in memory. > > > > Yup. > > > > BTW, this went to discuss instead of devel because I thought it more of > a > > "how to config tar and find to work the same" rather than a devel > > question. Guess I was wrong :). > > > > ciao, > > > > der.hans > > -- > > # der.hans@LuftHans.com home.pages.de/~lufthans/ www.Opnix.com > > # The only way for a woman to change a man > > # is if he's wearing Depends[TM] - der.hans > > > > > > ________________________________________________ > > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't > > post > > to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail. > > > > Plug-discuss mailing list - Plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > -- __--__-- > > > > Message: 15 > > From: Lucas Vogel > > To: "PLUG (E-mail)" > > Subject: The Linux Drivers Petition > > Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 00:27:58 -0700 > > charset="iso-8859-1" > > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > > Has everyone signed this yet? > > > > http://www.libralinux.com/petition.english.html > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > > Lucas Vogel, Software Developer > > Exponent Failure Analysis Associates, Inc. > > lvogel@exponent.com > > (623)587-6739 > > > > -- __--__-- > > > > Message: 16 > > Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 05:10:16 -0700 > > From: Hawke > > To: plug-discuss > > Subject: New business startup help/suggestions/info needed > > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > > Guys, > > I've been putting this thing off long enough. > > > > I now need some help. > > > > I'd like to start a business that involves the use of computers > > in a small location that serves the public (A cybercafe'). > > > > I would appreciate any additional input here 9especially from > > those who are either owners or major contributing partners > > in their respective organizations). > > > > I am also in need of funding sources (if you guys know of any > > where grants may be issued, etc, please let me know) > > > > I am looking at 2 alternatives so far as the hardware is concerned: > > 1. 25 workstations (diskless) > > specifications (workstations): > > memory: 256 megabytes > > video; 8 megabytes or more > > embedded linux os for loading Xwindows (or windows if need be) > > on an ethernet backbone to a main server (100baseT). > > Large monitors (17 inch or greater) > > CPU: athelon 550 Mhz or higher > > (on some machines I will include "special access technology" > > for the visually impaired) > > > > Alternative 2: > > 25 workstations (permanently mounted laptops) > > built in HDD's (restricted access) > > 100BaseT ethernet with embedded linux OS > > CPU: Athelon 550 Mhz or higher > > > > Server: > > CPU:Athelon 700 Mhz or greater > > Memory: 512 megabytes or greater > > HDD: Multiple 30 gigbye drives/RAID/SCSI > > Standard vid adaptor (this is also the admin station) > > OS: linux/BSD/SCO Unix/SUN Solaris/winNT > > (any of these, but prefer *nix) > > 2 Ethernet adaptors (100BaseT or fiber interface) > > > > other equipment: 50 way switch (100BaseT) > > Routing panel > > card reader > > > > It has been suggested to me that I issue cards of prepaid time > > (such as 30 minute, 60 minute, up to 1000 minutes) for various prices. > > The cost is computed on a per-minute basis and the larger cards > > would reflect a discount). > > > > As always, location is important. since there are already 3 such > > places around ASU, I plan to look elsewhere (such as central > > Phoenix, downtown Phoenix, Downtown glendale and north glendale) > > > > I am looking at possible bidquotes for both alternatives listed above > > from local providers 9such as technology partners, pc-club, and others). > > > > I am also looking at who would offer the best backbone service > > (or should I go with more than one with an in-house peering > > arrangement?), such as Cox, AT&T, QWEST, Sprint, MCI. > > > > Let me know if I need to add anything to this. > > I am trying to get this idea going as quickly as possible. > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > -- __--__-- > > > > Message: 17 > > Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 07:40:19 -0700 > > From: "J.L.Francois" > > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > Subject: Re: JLF = Kibo ? > > Reply-To: jlf@magusnet.gilbert.az.us > > Organization: MagusNet, Inc. Design * Develop * Integrate > > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > > It seems like on Fri, Aug 25, 2000 at 10:28:19PM -0700, Alan Dayley > > scribbled: > > Orig Msg> I admit to being on the internet for at least 7 years and > still > > not knowing > > Orig Msg> who Kibo is. Enlighten me please. > > Orig Msg> > > Orig Msg> Alan, Computer Knowledgeable Linux Newbie > > > > Back during the time of The Great Renaming I was still using Fido > Gateways > > and got > > an account on Delphi for text based Internet Access. > > > > Kibo - Net Legend > > Before the Great Renaming of Usenet and the arrival of the > unwashed > > masses > > to the Internet, Kibo would grep the news spool and generate an > > autoresponse > > to any post that mentioned him. > > if you look at the options for (X)Emacs there is a feature > > to still Kiboize newsgroups even though it really isn't > > feasible to do this anymore. > > > > For those of you into the history of the Internet take a look at these: > > http://www.galactic-guide.com/articles/6U1.html > > http://www.kibo.com > > > > > > Sniff....those were the days...sniff... > > > > JLF Sends... > > > > > > > > -- __--__-- > > > > Message: 18 > > From: "Dennis Sacks" > > To: > > Subject: Re: New business startup help/suggestions/info needed > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 20:59:26 -0700 > > charset="iso-8859-1" > > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > > One concern about cyber cafes - have any of them been successful > anywhere? > > I've never been in one that has had many customers. I like the idea of a > > cyber cafe in theory, but I'm not sure how it can be built into a good > > business model. > > > > > It has been suggested to me that I issue cards of prepaid time > > > (such as 30 minute, 60 minute, up to 1000 minutes) for various prices. > > > The cost is computed on a per-minute basis and the larger cards > > > would reflect a discount). > > > > Prepaid cards are good business. You have the customer's money (and can > > earn interest on it) and the customer has nothing but a piece of plastic > > that they one day *may* use. > > > > > I am also looking at who would offer the best backbone service > > > (or should I go with more than one with an in-house peering > > > arrangement?), such as Cox, AT&T, QWEST, Sprint, MCI. > > > > The best backbone service will be offered by some company called > > OpNIX......maybe you've heard of us? > > > > Dennis Sacks > > dennis@illusions.com > > Managed Services Geek, OpNIX, Inc. www.opnix.com > > > > > > > > > > -- __--__-- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Plug-discuss mailing list - Plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > > > End of Plug-discuss Digest > > > > --__--__-- > > _______________________________________________ > Plug-discuss mailing list - Plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > End of Plug-discuss Digest