\_ I AM a newbie (just ask David), I'd have to reject that proposition, actually. Beginner if you must, but you've done some stuff that say the kid gloves are looking kinda ragged. \_ and I think Perl is still the way \_ to go. I have picked up books on Python (O'Reilly), and still found \_ myself turning to Perl because I found it easier to understand. The thing about python that slows me down the most is that indenting makes a difference. It's the whole concept that irks me. Yes, I follow indenting rules, but to make the whitespace important when not in a string or literal? Many people I know have said python is happy, but I just can't see playing with an indent sensitive language. It hurts. I've got the ORA book, just lacking the motivation.... David