Excellent Analysis and hits true on a lot of topics I've experienced as a student, administrator and instructor at the community college level. So much potential, so much apathy, so much fear. :( It is too bad. :( Thanks for sharing the analysis. :) Hey, why the PhD if you want to work in computers? :) c. Cindy Fox Computer Training Solutions www.cindyfox.com (602) 692-8923 ----- Original Message ----- From: Trent Shipley To: Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 9:23 PM Subject: RE: Computer donations > > > Message: 12 > > From: "Robert Leonard" > > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > Subject: RE: Computer donations > > Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 11:30:53 PDT > > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > > Trent, > > > > Is it dying a slow death, or suffering from a slow start? Given the > > experience your going thru, any suggestions or things you might have done > > different? > > > > > > > > > > >In fairness, you should know that the Club is dying a slow death, but the > > >College will inherit the equipment and put it to good use --possibly in > the > > >level two UNIX class where they use Red Hat. > > > > > > > Q: Is it dying a slow death, or suffering from a slow start? > > A: YES! > > 0) Actually, the major problem probably IS a slow start. To be honest, I > was basically unemployed back in the Fall semester, so despite the fact that > I'm trying to finish a Ph.D. in Anthropology, I could put a lot of time into > getting the club started. > > The level of student apathy has been enormous. Getting this started at all > took a lot of work --and above all arm-twisting and evangelization. > Unfortunately for the club, I got a REAL job in December. I couldn't hang > around the campus during the day; heck, I couldn't even VISIT during a > workday. Evangelization came to a dead stop. Also, I was lucky to scrounge > up five hours a week to devote to the club. > > Furthermore, my interest in Linux waned since I was acquiring marketable > skills on the job. Also, I had no time for it after working on the > Anthropology dissertation, working, and tending to club administration. > > Moral, if you want to start an organization make certain you can give it at > least 20 hours a week . . . and more would be better. > > 0.a) I am not a great people person. The organization would have been > better served by a politically savvy, well groomed, sweet spoken leader > > 1) A side effect of not being able to evangelize was that the club > leadership amounted to . . . me. > > 2) Nevertheless, there were a core of as many as a half-dozen students who > WERE interested in working with computers and not just playing with > ready-to-run applications. The Club was also dogged by a lack of enthusiasm > on the part of its faculty representative and staff mentors. > > 2a) The sponsor was only nominally a faculty member, and was really an > administrator. > > 2a1) She had very little time to devote to the Club, and was not interested > in providing leadership to fill the void left by me (and other students) > > 2a2) She had relatively little contact with students. > > 2a3) She mostly sponsored the club to further some experimental use of > College resources, prove the feasibility of alternative use of the computer > facilities, and expand the political space in which she works. Having > accomplished this she actually wanted to drop the activities. In fact, > widespread student participation could have spooked her political > adversaries. Technical success let her prove her point while organizational > failure meant that those afraid of loosely controlled student access were > reassured that geeks are mostly harmless. > > > > 3) We received VERY little support from student life (who our advisor said > she counted as her strongest opposition. If you use an honor system, > students will violate it. Then the Dean of Students has to discipline them, > it is nasty work. DO NOT let students have the freedom to get into trouble. > This (quite understandably) is the policy of any competent Dean of Student > Life I have ever had the misfortune to deal with.) > > 3a) They were afraid that gaming --even under supervision --would produce > behaviors that would require disciplinary action. > > 3b) They were afraid that participation by non-students would result in > problems. In the worst case, problems in the form of REALLY expensive > lawsuits. Any open lab would need to be organized and run by students, but > needed a VOLUNTEER faculty observer. (This rule of more than one student > and always one faculty is a major barrier to expanding services through a > student club.) > > 3c) Everyone was afraid of the Arizona Republic writing a very negative > story on some club activity; or even a positive story. Tax payers want > those machines used for WORK damn it. There are a lot of people who would > rather have them off than used for innocent recreation. God help us if the > violence of LAN games got noticed or worse yet, someone associated with the > club was associated with pornography. The responsible faculty and staff > would have a PR damage control nightmare. > > > 4) No money and no stuff. > > 4a) You can't ask for money without a program. > > 4b) You can't run even a small pilot program without at least a few thousand > dollars. > > 4c) Space at GCC is precious. No one who controls it is going to give it > to students for their control. The only space that might be under student > control is the 6' x 10' office for Evening Student Government. > > 4d) Without space there are no standing lab facilities > > 4e) Without resources and labor there is no program. > > 4f) Most potential participants refuse to join an idea. They will join when > there are actually programs provided FOR them. Potential leaders tend to > join when there is an organization with resources to lead. (Hence the need > for an evangelist at this phase) > > > 5) I saw the major thrust of the organization as providing auxiliary > educational services to students, helping them to get hands-on experience > for their resume. I also saw it as having a role in technology extension to > the community, and preparing a pool of entry-level technicians for Valley > industry. > > 5a1) This sort of organization would benefit greatly from fosterage by > another community based organization. > > 5a2) The community college system is a natural partner for this sort of > organization. > > 5a3) The most accessible entry to the community colleges was as a student > club. > > 5a3a) Student Life was not about to let the model of a student club be > perverted as a way to start a community organization > > 5b) I am told the faculty at GCC are VERY resistant to ANY program that > would pull the community colleges away from their primary mission providing > traditional higher education in the narrow sense. > > 5c) District rules and state laws made it virtually impossible to provide > services or do projects for anything or anyone that was not part of the > community college district. For example, we could not have developed, and > certainly couldn't have hosted, a web site for a non-profit organization. > > 5c) I had little success getting anyone else to share my vision that > college sponsorship of a technology extension and outreach program would > produce outreach to potential students, provide a working relationship with > numerous high-tech firms that could have positive (even lucrative) > side-effects for the school, and help foster development on the West Side. > (In fact, many faculty [but not administrators] wouldn't give a damn about > those objectives since they weren't educational _per se_) > > -------------- > > When I finish my dissertation, I think I'll try again. This time I'll start > with a non-profit charter and try to get 501c3 status. I'm also told that > Phoenix Community College is much more receptive to community involvement, > so I might look into an institutional partnership there. > > > Trent Shipley > > > _______________________________________________ > Plug-discuss mailing list - Plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss