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For solid, reasonable cost laptops, consider used Thinkpads on
Ebay. They run Linux well and can be had for a few hundred
dollars. You can easily upgrade or replace, RAM, hard drives,
screens, keyboards, etc; which is getting harder to do on newer
systems (except Framework, of course). These have something like
7th gen Intel CPUs, so they're fine for most uses, but aren't nearly
as fast as new systems.<br>
<br>
Think models like the T480, E590, and X1 Carbon 7th Gen.<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/8/25 4:41 PM, Eric Oyen via
PLUG-discuss wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:782A381B-09D2-4C43-A0C8-682788C2A8A0@icloud.com">
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<div>David,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You’re not the only one! My Mac mini is circa 2012 and it
still functions well with its original OS, however, things are
starting to come to the point where I’m going to have to install
LINUX on it. There’s some things I can’t do with it anymore.
(some webpages won’t load properly which means they won’t load
inside the screen reader either. However, I’m looking at the
open core project, which will probably give me some options as
far as updating is concerned. And yes, because I’m on an
exceedingly limited income (disability), I am like you in that I
cannot afford new equipment every time somebody forces us
through the upgrade cycle.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Anyway, that’s probably the beauty about Apple hardware is
that it lasts a long time.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Eric</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On May 8, 2025, at 12:01 PM, David
Schwartz via PLUG-discuss
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org"><plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org></a> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
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I truly appreciate your concern and encouragement to spend
money needlessly. I typically keep my hardware until it
dies. If you prefer to replace yours on a schedule even if
it’s still working, that’s up to you. So far, my Mac
hardware has lasted far longer than anything running
Windows. I doubt it’s the OS.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">(My first iMac died not long after the Apple
Care expired — a chip on the video card failed and they
wanted nearly $700 to replace it. That didn’t seem like a
wise investment, so I pulled out the RAM and HD, and sold
the carcass for nearly $400. I could have gotten more than
that by parting out the case, PS, LCD display, and logic
board separately, but that would have taken longer.)
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">However, I also know that Windows attracts
more than an order of magnitude more attempts to hack
the system versus all other platforms combined, so I
CHOOSE to avoid it in large part for that reason alone.
I also prefer *nix to Windows as it’s far more stable.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Value is measured over time. My experience
with Apple’s hardware is that it lasts far longer than
anything I’ve had that runs Windows. And it does not
depreciate nearly as quickly. I’m quite happy with the
value I’ve gotten for my money.<br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
-David Schwartz<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On May 7, 2025, at 10:02 AM, Matthew
Gibson via PLUG-discuss <<a
href="mailto:plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">My wife's macbook died.
Multiple times. Several were hard drive
failures. We replaced, with Apple-nazi
sanctioned hardware. The final death was when
the graphics card stopped working. Could get a
framebuffer on it. But anything more
intensive? nope. Thing said 'Newp!' So I said
'good-riddance'.<br class="">
<br class="">
You can like whatever hardware you want. As
for me and my house? I don't run Apple crap.<br
class="">
Too much headache. Too much engineered
obsolescence. Too much money for what it's
worth.<br class="">
Even with the "better hardware" rationale for
fanboys paying out every time a new phone
comes out which only improves slightly on a
camera, or better, adds a feature that android
has had for years.<br class="">
<br class="">
I wouldn't want to do any serious work on your
old macs that are ancient. Have you done any
vulnerability scans on them? "Might want to
look into that" ~Tony Stark, as he bonks the
head of the bad guy in Iron Man I.<br class="">
<br class="">
Anyways, I'm not going to change your mind,
and this conversation grows ancient. Like your
macs.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">T.T.F.N.</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, May
6, 2025 at 6:03 PM David Schwartz via
PLUG-discuss <<a
href="mailto:plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On
May 4, 2025, at 7:36 PM, Keith Smith via
PLUG-discuss <<a
href="mailto:plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org" target="_blank"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
> <br class="">
> I did not know there was a bias on the
list.<br class="">
> <br class="">
> - Keith<br class="">
> <br class="">
<br class="">
It’s when people mention “the Apple tax”
that the bias shows up.<br class="">
<br class="">
At least my older Macs don’t turn into
door-stops when Apple stops supporting them.
Two of them cannot be upgraded to the latest
versions of MacOS, but they are fully
functional.<br class="">
<br class="">
From all of the warnings I’m reading about
Windows 10, I’m really not sure what to
expect. I have two computers that I can’t
upgrade to Win 11.<br class="">
<br class="">
-David Schwartz<br class="">
<br class="">
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