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<p>comcast is available in this area. They're offering speeds up to
200 Mbps. As soon as the AT&T guy left, I went to Comcast's
site and signed up for 25Mbps service which costs the same as the
10 - 12 AT&T offers. I'll have to watch the comcast bill.
When I had them before, they liked to sneak in extra charges that
weren't supposed to be there. They would remove them when I
called to complain. This time I won't be using their tv service.
I put up an antenna and I use locast.org. <br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/20/20 12:18 PM, Michael Butash via
PLUG-discuss wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CADWnDst6rPzTu1rFGovJK43imOpGy3LqSSnD1cmypZk5F27vmA@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>I'm not sure I could live somewhere with crap internet, I
would probably go about forming some sort of local isp of
sorts if enough folks around to be worth it. It's not exactly
hard, backward telcos and cable companies can figure it out,
it's all capital cost up front and who pays for it, ideally
more than just you.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Circa 2003 at cox business, we had some baller customers
with DS3's to their house (one ran an isp in his basement),
which really meant we installed an OC3 fiber node there, and
gave them a third of it. These were maybe $2000-3000/mo
circuits, but the construction to get fiber to their crib
alone might be $30-50k. One customer in the middle of a lake
community was more to build into. Either they lock you into a
5yr or more contract to make that construction cost back, or
you pay it up front.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Back then, I worked a lot with the project group that did
construction, so I sat down with someone and we looked at
getting fiber to my house for some baller service myself,
ideally with some employee discount... They estimated roughly
$35k in cost alone for construction, including construction
street cuts to bury fiber, permitting, etc, let alone service,
and mine wasn't terribly complex. I considered reselling to
neighbors, but back then expensive gigabit options probably
weren't too attractive to general consumers in 2003. I stuck
with my cable modem, they didn't pay that well.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Today that would probably be equivalent to a 10GbE+ drop to
your house, but at scale of cost most likely. Resell that to
your neighbors for some premium bandwidth, everyone wins, but
presumes your neighbors aren't all luddites. Some rural
communities are doing this, when AT&T and others aren't
shutting them down.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-mb</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 9:19
AM Bob Elzer via PLUG-discuss <<a
href="mailto:plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">I'd brush up on fiber splicing lol
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 1:40
PM Jim via PLUG-discuss <<a
href="mailto:plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>AT&T is still fscked up. The tech came out today
and told me that the cutoff for the service is 4800
feet and I'm 5136 feet from the box the modem talks
to. He ran some test anyway and confirmed it's not
available. He told me he has heard of no plans to
bring fiber to my neighborhood, but said it is
available in a small town 5 miles up the road from me
in one direction. 3 miles down the road in the other
direction is a subdivision that has it. The fiber
runs next to the highway less than a hundred yards
from here. I guess it's time to see what other
options if any are available.<br>
</p>
<div>On 8/16/20 10:39 AM, Michael Butash wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>I think it mostly comes down to the fact that
they can only really guarantee 2 or 4 wires to a
premise for residential telco, probably more
modern deployments a full 8 wires (ala CatX),
though their traditional copper distribution isn't
built for it unless commercial (their big PED on
the roads your neighborhood comes back to.
Probably something in the telcordia standards back
to ma bell days that says that is just how it is.
Since the plants are non-shielded, non-twisted
pair cabling too, it can only modulate so high,
particularly when poorly run/done, which is why
you're stuck at 12mbps.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If they had to change your home copper, they'd
just run fiber, neither will happen likely. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The DSL bonding is already a hack to get more
bandwidth when DSL itself is stuck in time now at
raw theoretical limits. Combining more physical
channels as these were would be trivial, if copper
were available, and telcos wanted to support it.
Someone would need to make the modem too.
Technically cable modems do this, literally taking
"channels" or slices or spectrum on the wire, and
load-balancing them internally, up to 24 or 32
channels for multi-gig capabilities. Same with
ethernet, taking 8 into a port-channel and
balancing across them, whether 100 megabit or 400
gigabit ethernet. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>AT&T is the most ghetto provider out there
still, and always has been imho. Moving to San
Jose in '99, there was AT&T Cable TV installed
by the owners, which consisted of 2x of your
standard coax ala modern cable from the outside,
and required a physical a/b switch box to switch
between 13 channels on one, and 13 channels on
another. First I looked at it, and was confused
enough I had to call them and ask wtf the cable
"channels" worked to realize just how bad it was,
and I then worked for the original @home cable isp
company then supporting AT&T cable modems!
The images were even snowy, the service was so bad
even a tech couldn't (read: wouldn't) improve.
When I asked about a cable modem, they laughed at
me, so I had to get DSL (phat 1.5mbps then),
disconnected the useless cable tv (yay usenet
alt.binaries.video even then), and threw up a
finger to AT&T.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I can only imagine how bad AT&T's DSL is if
they couldn't figure out even coax. My experience
supporting their customers for Cable Modem data in
'99, relatively new tech then, wasn't much better,
as if the cable plant to your house was broke, it
tended to just stay broke despite our rolling
their techs to fix it. Then they'd get angry at
us for doing so and tell us to stop rolling so
many trucks to fix things.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sigh.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Having grown up in Phoenix where Dimension, and
later Cox actually had their shit (relatively)
together, this was an inconceivable atrocity but
exactly what I'd expect of AT&T. Thanks to
them (and Comcast, all the media cartels now
really) owning the FCC now with your tax dollars,
it'll never, ever, get better either. Good thing
Net Neutrality and consumer rights weren't really
needed after all!<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-mb</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Aug 15,
2020 at 12:42 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss <<a
href="mailto:plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>150 Mbps, you're lucky. Here AT&T has to
bond 2 pairs so I can get 25 Mbps. At
least it's not comcast. I wonder how many
pairs they could bond. Is there a technical
limit or is it just a matter of how many they
want to bond? As more people abandon
landlines, that leaves more capacity for
AT&T to bond multiple pairs for internet
customers.<br>
</p>
<div>On 8/10/20 11:21 AM, Michael Butash via
PLUG-discuss wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>So I went through this moving from Cox
to CenturyLink, and pretty much as
described, fairly painless.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><tldr><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I had scheduled a CL tech to install me
for new service a few years ago, and we
first hit the outside where CL ran their
cabling in. It was an ancient telephony
distribution from the 90's, and I've never
had a land-line in my house since owning
it in 2002. My house built in 95 at least
used cat5 or like, so I have 4 pairs to
every room, so 2 pairs I need was just
fine for bonded DSL He ripped out the old
block, removing the house cabling but the
one, and isolated the particular line we
needed to my office where the modem lives,
added an approved jack, done. Bonded dsl
is 2x 2-wire channels, and they
essentially load-balance 75+75mbps
channels. I have tested this to n-by
gigabit upstreams.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Phone only guarantees 2 wires are
available, so telcos built on this 100
years ago are a bit assed-out on passable
high-frequency modulation schemas in use
for data and other things to move beyond
where they're at. DSL makes up for this,
particularly when double up on wires it
gets better, but still unshielded and
prone to breakdown. Problem is mostly it
isn't shielded, thus capable of very high
frequency modulation ala Cable/DOCSIS, so
it will never go much further than it has
today whereas Cable scales to gigabits
with channelization and QAM modulation at
32bit rates.</div>
<br>
<div>VDSL tech is capable of roughly 75mbps
per channel, and 2x of these get you to
around CL's bonded DSL limits. This also
includes your distance limitations to your
local DSLAM, or regional router that
terminates your data that degrades this
eventually further you are from it, so
it's a bit tricky. It's been stuck here
for years, and pretty much at life end.
This is why my cousin living half a mile
from me can only get 75mbps from CL and I
can with bonded @150mbps here. Old crap
network there.<br>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Fiber, particularly Single Mode,
gives you whatever to ~100GbE, but
depends on how your provider does
low-rate Passive Optical Networking
(PON) today for residential fiber. Not
quite the same as a business data
network, but any fiber is better than
copper networks.<br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Why Centurylink's only hope for the
future is fiber vs. copper in new builds.
I like my 25yr old house still, so no
fiber for me ever. Unless I street cut my
block for fiber myself, which I've
considered, just need to get my neighbors
to buy into me as their new gigabit isp.
;)<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-mb</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat,
Aug 8, 2020 at 1:27 PM Jim via
PLUG-discuss <<a
href="mailto:plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Ok. I won't complain if I have to go
out and buy a 4 conductor phone cord.<br>
</p>
<div>On 8/7/20 9:05 AM, Stephen
Partington wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:trebuchet
ms,sans-serif">My understanding of
this is that they will activate
the second pair that is commonly
used in the RJ-43 port in your
wall. This will allow 2 lines
active to the device.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:trebuchet
ms,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:trebuchet
ms,sans-serif">Changes inside
might need to happen if your
residence does not have 4 wire (2
line) compatibility. (IE 2 pairs
to the jack vs 1 pair)</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:10 PM Jim
via PLUG-discuss <<a
href="mailto:plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Where
I live, I get AT&T for my DSL
service. I've signed up for an <br>
upgrade from 10 Mbps to 25. I
finally got someone there who
would tell <br>
me why a technician visit is
required for the upgrade. They're
bonding 2 <br>
pairs to supply the faster speed
here. I've read up online about
DSL <br>
bonding. I understand that one
pair will carry some of the data,
and <br>
the other pair will carry some.
But one thing I didn't find out
was <br>
whether or not anything will
change between the wall jack and
the <br>
modem. Is everything done outside
or do they have to come inside? I
<br>
currently have a 2 conductor cord
connecting my modem to the wall
jack. <br>
Will that have to be replaced with
a 4 conductor cord? Do they
install <br>
an extra box outside or inside? I
guess all will be answered on the
<br>
18th when the guy is scheduled to
be here. I'm really curious how
this <br>
works.<br>
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<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">A mouse trap, placed on
top of your alarm clock, will
prevent you from rolling over and
going back to sleep after you hit
the snooze button.<br>
<br>
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