<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    <p>OMG!!</p>
    <p>First of all, you'd be mis-educating them if telling them that
      certificate "validity" has any real meaning. (But now you're
      talking about http.)<br>
    </p>
    <p>Second, why do you think you have any right to put speed bumps in
      the way of people who are doing nothing to you? <br>
    </p>
    <p>Third, if your grandmother needs internet "safety" education,
      just educate her, or refuse to keep fixing the problems she
      encounters in her ignorance - if she really is all that ignorant.
      I hope you wouldn't install a browser re-direct without her
      consent, because then you'd be just any other malware propagator
      with just any other self-righteous rationalization.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Fourth, if <i>you </i>need educational "speed bumps" on <i>your
      </i>router, <i>you </i>are free to have them. One of the great
      things about freedom - from government or from meddling busybodies
      - is that <i>you </i>get to be free too.</p>
    <p>For years my Firefox has had an option to "always use HTTPS", and
      I'm sure all other modern browsers do as well. Plus, Mozilla.org
      has a free plugin - I think it's from EFF.org - called "HTTPS
      Everywhere". It's all very easy to use, and will be almost
      entirely transparent to Grandma.<br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/20/2017 3:14 PM, Brien Dieterle
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAA_SwrkZyuoVLyirw_XBqXzOrQ0bqnW7tGqWxswh2+53EgXe-Q@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">A system like I described would just be an
        "educational tool" to encourage people to use HTTPS (properly). 
        It wouldn't stop you from accepting bogus certificates-- just a
        speed bump.  Now that I've thought about it I'd really like to
        install something like this on my grandparent's router. . .  
        heck, my own router. . .<br>
        <div>
          <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
            <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 2:50 PM,
              Vara La Fey <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:varalafey@gmail.com" target="_blank">varalafey@gmail.com</a>></span>
              wrote:<br>
              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
                  <p>Oh HELL no!! What kind of hall-monitor nanny
                    mentality do you want people to adopt??</p>
                  <p>I accept "bogus" certificates all the time because
                    the whole idea of certificates is crap in the first
                    place - they are NOT maintained - and years ago I
                    got tired of that procedure warning me about
                    "invalid" certificates for sites that were perfectly
                    valid.</p>
                  <p>I've never had a problem. Of course I'm also
                    careful where I go, certificate or not.</p>
                  <span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
                      <p>- Vara<br>
                      </p>
                    </font></span>
                  <div>
                    <div class="h5"> <br>
                      <div class="m_6778587083276554415moz-cite-prefix">On
                        3/20/2017 2:12 PM, Brien Dieterle wrote:<br>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote type="cite">
                        <div dir="ltr">Maybe every commercial router
                          should do SSL interception by default.  If a
                          user accepts a bogus certificate they are
                          taken to a page that thoroughly scolds them
                          and informs them about the huge mistake they
                          made, forces them to read a few slides and
                          take a quiz on network safety before allowing
                          them on the Internet.  Maybe do the same for
                          non-ssl HTTP traffic, etc.. . <br>
                        </div>
                        <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                          <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 20, 2017
                            at 1:55 PM, Matt Graham <span dir="ltr"><<a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:mhgraham@crow202.org"
                                target="_blank">mhgraham@crow202.org</a>></span>
                            wrote:<br>
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                              style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
                              #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span>
                                <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                  style="margin:0 0 0
                                  .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                                  solid;padding-left:1ex"> On Mon, Mar
                                  20, 2017 at 12:29 PM, Victor Odhner
                                  <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:vodhner@cox.net"
                                    target="_blank">vodhner@cox.net</a>>
                                  wrote:<br>
                                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                    style="margin:0 0 0
                                    .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                                    solid;padding-left:1ex"> I’m really
                                    annoyed that so many companies offer
                                    open WIFI when it would be<br>
                                    so easy to secure those hot spots. 
                                    Restaurants, hotels, and the waiting<br>
                                    rooms of auto dealerships are almost
                                    100% open.<br>
                                  </blockquote>
                                </blockquote>
                              </span> [snip]<span><br>
                                On 2017-03-20 13:20, Stephen Partington
                                wrote:<br>
                                <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                  style="margin:0 0 0
                                  .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                                  solid;padding-left:1ex"> This is
                                  usually done as a means to be easy for
                                  their customers.<br>
                                </blockquote>
                                <br>
                              </span> Pretty much this.  Convenience is
                              more valuable than security in most
                              people's minds.<span><br>
                                <br>
                                <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                  style="margin:0 0 0
                                  .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                                  solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                    style="margin:0 0 0
                                    .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                                    solid;padding-left:1ex"> they’d be
                                    happy to do the right thing if we
                                    could explain it to the right
                                    people.<br>
                                  </blockquote>
                                </blockquote>
                                <br>
                              </span> I'm not sure this would happen. 
                              Setting up passwords and then distributing
                              those passwords has a non-zero cost and
                              offers zero visible benefits for most of
                              the people who are using the wireless
                              networks.[0]  And as another poster said,
                              what about football/baseball stadiums? 
                              Distributing passwords to tens of
                              thousands of people is sort of difficult. 
                              "Just watching the game" is not an option;
                              people want to FaceTweet pictures of
                              themselves at the game.<br>
                              <br>
                              OTOH, the last time I looked at the access
                              points visible from my living room, almost
                              all of them had some sort of access
                              control enabled. Maybe there's a social
                              convention forming that "my access point"
                              ~= "my back yard" and "open access point"
                              ~= "a public park"?<br>
                              <br>
                              [0] Having a more educated user population
                              would make the benefits more visible, but
                              it's very difficult to make people care
                              about these things.<span
                                class="m_6778587083276554415HOEnZb"><font
                                  color="#888888"><br>
                                  <br>
                                  -- <br>
                                  Crow202 Blog: <a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="http://crow202.org/wordpress"
                                    rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://crow202.org/wordpress</a><br>
                                  There is no Darkness in Eternity<br>
                                  But only Light too dim for us to see.</font></span>
                              <div class="m_6778587083276554415HOEnZb">
                                <div class="m_6778587083276554415h5"><br>
                                  ------------------------------<wbr>---------------------<br>
                                  PLUG-discuss mailing list - <a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org"
                                    target="_blank">PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.or<wbr>g</a><br>
                                  To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to
                                  change your mail settings:<br>
                                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss"
                                    rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.phxlinux.org/mail<wbr>man/listinfo/plug-discuss</a></div>
                              </div>
                            </blockquote>
                          </div>
                          <br>
                        </div>
                        <br>
                        <fieldset
                          class="m_6778587083276554415mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
                        <br>
                        <pre>------------------------------<wbr>---------------------
PLUG-discuss mailing list - <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_6778587083276554415moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org" target="_blank">PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.<wbr>org</a>
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_6778587083276554415moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.phxlinux.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss</a></pre>
    </blockquote>
    

  </div></div></div>


------------------------------<wbr>---------------------

PLUG-discuss mailing list - <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org">PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.<wbr>org</a>

To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:

<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.phxlinux.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss</a>
</blockquote></div>
</div></div></div>


<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre wrap="">---------------------------------------------------
PLUG-discuss mailing list - <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org">PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org</a>
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss">http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss</a></pre>

</blockquote>
</body></html>