<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">I do much the same here. But if you are installing something that does not have an always connected network you might want to adjust the wait timeout for networking sooner than later. 5m boot delays are weird and annoying.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 8:59 AM, Brian Cluff <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:brian@snaptek.com" target="_blank">brian@snaptek.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>In my experience the server install is pretty much just a minimal
install that asks you at the end if you want to install certain
typical server software. I just normally just pick SSH server and
then add whatever I want after the first boot. I've always had
less problems installing the server over rather than the desktop
install because of the odd graphics card problems that pop up from
time to time (but hardly ever these days) since the server install
uses a text based installer. The server install will allow you
easily install a basic system and then install the proprietary
graphics drivers afterwards skipping having to have them to
install in the first place.</p>
<p>The only real gotcha is that it takes longer to install since
much of your software (aka your entire desktop environment) will
have to be downloaded over the Internet rather than coming off of
nice fast flash drives or DVDs. You could, if you are in a hurry,
install via the server install disk and then use the packages on
the desktop install to feed your desktop install, but in the long
run it probably won't save you any time since you would still want
to update everything over the Internet and that would take just
about as long. Then again, if you have the server installed, you
can actually be doing stuff to customize your install at the same
time that it's installing/updating so it's probably all in all a
speed win.<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
</font></span></p><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<p>Brian Cluff<br>
</p></font></span><div><div class="h5">
On 11/08/2016 12:49 AM, trent shipley wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">What are some of the gotchas he can expect in
installing: server -> delta desktop repository -> delta
desktop gui -> no more than two days tweaking system? OR:
<div>desktop install -> delta server -> tweak?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'd expect using the server distro as the base to work
better with a server enabled workstation, but that's just a
layperson's hunch.</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 3:35 PM Brian Cluff <<a href="mailto:brian@snaptek.com" target="_blank">brian@snaptek.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">Plus one for the server install DVD. If
you are going to do anything out of the norm, always reach
for the server install. Then just apt install
kubuntu-desktop when everything is done installing.<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
Kde neon is pretty good right now and about the only way to
get an up to date kde experience right now, but it will
still use the Ubuntu installer. It would probably be best
for you to use the server install cd, then add the neon
repositories, and then install the the neon-desktop</div>
<div class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"><br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
Brian Cluff<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</div>
<div class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<div class="gmail_quote m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">On November 7, 2016
1:17:07 PM MST, Stephen Partington <<a href="mailto:cryptworks@gmail.com" class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg" target="_blank">cryptworks@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
</div>
<div class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<div class="gmail_quote m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr" class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<div class="gmail_default m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">Wow. you
worked much harder with the desktop install media
than i would have. I usually 86 the desktop install
media and just use the server install media to get
the LVM/Raid settings i want to use. i just have to
remember to disable the network wait on boot.</div>
<div class="gmail_default m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif"><br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">I am
about to try something like this again for a while
as Windows 10 is irking me again more and more.</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"><br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<div class="gmail_quote m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">On Mon, Nov 7, 2016
at 12:17 PM, Michael Butash <span dir="ltr" class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"><<a href="mailto:mike@butash.net" class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg" target="_blank">mike@butash.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Sorry for the fire and
forget, had to rebuild a data center
for a customer over the weekend - I was just
really hoping to have the darn box up before I
left to work on it remote, such a simple feat
normally, but I had no time for anyways.<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
Rest inline...<span class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"><br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
On 11/03/2016 03:54 AM, Steve Litt wrote:<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
On Wed, 2 Nov 2016 18:38:24 -0700<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
Michael Butash <<a href="mailto:mike@butash.net" class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg" target="_blank">mike@butash.net</a>>
wrote:<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</span><span class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
This is really why I have a hate/love
relation with ubuntu, it never<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
fails to disappoint. My road to 16.04 has
been all upgrades so far,<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
this time I'm using 16.04.1 cd's from
scratch.<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</blockquote>
Curious: What do you love about it? You seem
like the kind of person<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
who could work with any distro.<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</span></blockquote>
Short answer, it usually works where others do not
with my graphics, a 6-head amd video card which
until recently, I used all ports on.<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
Long story, probably tldr (you asked!), definitely
love/hate...<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
After my last straw with windoze and making the
decision to force myself to use linux to both
learn and abandon m$ shitty ecosystem circa 2006,
I tried a bit of everything disto-wise. I always
loathed redhat and rpm hell (no, yum didn't
entirely fix this, and much later), I came from
slackware/open|freebsd/solaris background having
no desire to go back, and oddly landed on Mandrake
for a bit. Until I started hacking on it, and
things came unglued.<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
I decided to try Ubuntu after reading about debian
roots I've heard praised (tried for 2 seconds, got
annoyed, don't remember now why), I think 6.04 at
the time, and oddly it "just worked".<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
I didn't begin to have any real issues until 10.10
until the era of unity hell began, and they
started trying to make Ubuntu install more
idiot-proof for, well idiots. Sadly it removed
all the good features like complex raid, crypto,
and lvm setup, making it about as stupid as
possible, but there was always the alt installer
and just simply not using unity, if I could just
get the damn os on a system. Thanks Canonical.<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
They then pissed on that, fiddling with (breaking)
the alt installer removing fdisk (it's what I used
for my raid+crypto+lvm setup), and ultimately
doing away with the alt installer all together as
insult to injury. Again I worked around them in
other ways, building my fs manually with an arch
cd first learning how to build it all manually
from busybox again, and trick the netboot
installer into working over it. Thanks again
Canonoical.<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
Around 2014, I got really annoyed after
dist-upgrade blew up my system that I decide to
sojourn a bit and explore distros again with a new
laptop I'd gotten. I couldn't even get fedora's
vaunted installer to reproduce my raid+crypt+lvm
setup, and despised the notion of going back to it
anyways, but at the request of a friend that for
some reason likes it, tried. Even tried Red Hat's
official installer, more broken than fedora,
scratch either/or. Tried Arch too, got to a
desktop, and found hell with the AMD drivers and
graphics capabilities in general.<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
I settled on Mint Debian edition with Mate, as
Cinnamon was all sorts of broken with compositing
on even the most basic intel gpu, which seemed
like instant fail. Mate was great, and used that
for a bit until with some new ssd's I'd begun to
rebuild my desktop with mint de mate, and found
ATI graphic hell in my desktop. AMD only cares
about fedora/ubuntu as a linux entity, knew it
would likely work there, and again hacked ubuntu
back onto my system. It's the same install I'm
using today, and eventually moved my laptop back
to ubuntu.<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
What I really can't fathom is how Canonical can
keep breaking their installers in such new and
creative ways each time, and only I seem to
notice, but then again, I expect linux features
most people don't know even exist or care about
like raid, crypto, or volume management.<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
If BTRFS or ZFS supported better encryption, I'd
love to use one native fs to do all the
raid/crypto/lvm in it. I think as of this year,
either/both might, so worth exploring, but I bet
ubuntu's installers will still suck in dealing
with them.<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
Yes, AMD is a root evil for linux graphics and at
times the kernels, but nvidia to this day still
has not put out a 6-head video card like AMD that
I actually use all 6 ports of. Now I have 3x
montiors (well, tv's), so this new one has a nice
new 1070 card in it. Which thanks to their crappy
business practices too of not releasing firmware
immediately (that amd would decompile), I know
nouveau has issues with, and the binary drive is
necessary. I'm handy with cli here, not too
worried, more that their drivers suck too these
days.<span class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"><br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I really don't want to have to make a circle
of distro's to end up<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
back here again, but ubuntu is always so
basically dysfunctional<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
these days with the most basic things, it's
hard to want to care.<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
I wonder how much others have seen this.
This is with legacy boot in<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
bios, no uefi crap, and just a basic d-i
based ubuntu server install,<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
and/or kubuntu.<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</blockquote>
I used Ubuntu for several years because it
"just works." The trouble<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
was, as I got more sophisticated, Ubuntu's
seatbelts and airbags and<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
danger sensing devices and training wheels and
all that other stuff so<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
necessary to the newbie badly got in my way.<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</blockquote>
</span>
I agree, it feels almost childish to still use
Ubuntu at this stage, but nothing else has worked
suitably, and I'm somewhat tired of
trying+disappointment when history has proven most
others to be inadequate or worse.<span class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"><br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
So I ditched Ubuntu for Debian, and that was
great, but then Debian<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
went systemd so I switched to Void Linux, and
after a rocky 5 weeks of<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
Void newbie-ism, Void has turned out to be the
most useful, maleable<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
and stable distro I've ever used. I've used
Void for over a year now.<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</blockquote>
</span>
That's why I tried Mint Debian Edition - figured
deb it might suck less and just wanted a modern
ui, but found that their driver support for AMD,
or rather a support for modern versions thereof
for graphics were fairly lacking, and no one from
a major org cares enough to fix it. I simply
could not get their kernel to take the amd driver,
which was a non-starter. It's actually what drove
me finally back to Ubuntu natively just for a
working video solution, and at times keeps me
bound.<span class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"><br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I think you've probably outgrown Ubuntu.<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</blockquote>
</span>
See above. It tends to work great as long as I
don't have to 1) install it via "normal" means or
2) upgrade it, both often suck these days. Both
have simply continued to get worse and worse, and
I only encounter them every few years out of
necessity of they are also both my primary means
of working as my own business. Once I hit 14.04
stable, I upgraded only upon absolute necessity
core functions like kernel or desktop libs, and
only essential apps that require them (browsers
really), but otherwise didn't upgrade core until
16.04 when it released. That's been a current
longer evolutionary story I'll get to eventually.<span class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"><br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
BUT, as far as your current no-booting
installer problem, I wonder if<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
your media are bad. Just for fun, boot System
Rescue CD and have a look<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
around the system to verify no disk or RAM
problems, and that the<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
processor is what you think it is. If you
can't boot System Rescue CD<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
either, that points an accusing finger at your
DVD drive.<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</blockquote>
</span>
This is something I'd seen before actually, I'd
mentioned another time about arch and disk-label
usage. I don't think it's media, but who knows.
My 10 year old spindle of dvd-r's might be
breaking down by now, but first time I've seen
this with a anything, why I tried both the
built-in, and a usb, of which I've used hundreds
of times to boot things, almost always said linux
boxes over the past 10 years, another not long
ago.<span class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"><br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Also, try burning your disks with cdrecord (or
wodim) instead of a gui.<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
I use a command something like this:<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
cdrecord dev=/dev/sr0 padsize=63s
driveropts=burnfree \<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
-pad -dao -v -eject myimage.iso<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
The padsize=63s and -pad help with the Linux
readahead bug. Burnfree<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
means you don't unknowingly make coasters or
bad discs if your computer<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
can't deliver the data fast enough.<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
If you perform the burn like I mentioned
above, you *should* be able to<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
md5 check the disc to the same md5sum as the
iso file by following<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
directions here:<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<a href="http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/coasterless.htm" rel="noreferrer" class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg" target="_blank">http://www.troubleshooters.<wbr>com/linux/coasterless.htm</a><br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</blockquote>
</span>
Interesting - I've not had to adjust a cd like
that using k3b on linux ever or nero in win since
doing so for pirated drm games. Only time seeing
something like that is using unetbootin to make
the usb where it doesn't know the iso expects a
certain disk label to exist. This seemed more a
sloppy iso build in the few hours I had with the
system and ample frustration to write that.<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
Thank you for that tidbit, I'll try it after I
fiddle with the bios more on this. I'm going to
try a kde neon build (really what I'm interested
in more here), I just didn't have the time as it
showed up 5 hours before I had to pack, sleep, and
hop on a plane (sad, I know). It's a t7910
precision dell, more a server board than desktop,
so I'd really expect better behaviour here on
either pc or ubuntu.<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
I'll update when I get to it tonight hopefully.
<div class="m_2792327019177089564m_2380351049852680923HOEnZb m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<div class="m_2792327019177089564m_2380351049852680923h5 m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"><br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
HTH,<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
SteveT<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
Steve Litt<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
November 2016 featured book: Quit
Joblessness: Start Your Own Business<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<a href="http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz" rel="noreferrer" class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg" target="_blank">http://www.troubleshooters.<wbr>com/startbiz</a><br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
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To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your
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</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg" clear="all">
<div class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"><br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</div>
-- <br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<div class="m_2792327019177089564m_2380351049852680923gmail_signature m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">A mouse
trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will
prevent you from rolling over and going back to
sleep after you hit the snooze button.<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
Stephen<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<div class="gmail_quote m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<pre class="m_2792327019177089564m_2380351049852680923k9mail m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">PLUG-discuss mailing list - <a href="mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org" class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg" target="_blank">PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.<wbr>org</a>
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
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PLUG-discuss mailing list - <a href="mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org">PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.<wbr>org</a><br>
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<a href="http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.phxlinux.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss</a><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.<br><br>Stephen<br><br></div>
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