<div dir="ltr"><div><div><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <a href="mailto:techlists@phpcoderusa.com">techlists@phpcoderusa.com</a><br>To: Main PLUG discussion list <<a href="mailto:plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org">plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org</a>><br>
Cc: <br>Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2014 17:16:26 -0700<br>Subject: Re: OT: Wanted: Android App Developer $??? Reward ...<br><br>
Your CIO example was not lost on me. I get it. I'm focusing on the
market and how it effects my ability to make a living as a freelance
developer. For me it is about demand/compensation, is the projected
life cycle long enough to make it worth while making the necessary
investment of time to become competent, and is it something I really
would like to do.<br>
<br>
It is kind of like a personal hedgehog -<br>
<br>
1) what are you passionate about?<br>
2) what can you be the best at?<br>
3) does it drive your economic engine?<br>
<br>
I would add two more<br>
4) is the projected life cycle long enough to reasonably recoup one's investment to become competent?<br>
5) is the barrier to entry low enough to make the transition worth while?<br>
<br>
I'm sure you can add a couple more.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2014-08-04 16:59, David Schwartz wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Back in the 80’s, M$ was just another compiler vendor, one of several.<br>
And they weren’t even considered the best.<br>
<br>
It has been estimated that their software development tools division<br>
alone would rank as a Fortune 100 business entity. But they actually<br>
receive very little direct revenues because they get subsidized by<br>
other divisions. Today they exist mainly because they drove everybody<br>
else out of business. It’s hard to compete as a compiler vendor when<br>
M$ gives a company free dev tools if their CIO agrees to buy a huge<br>
bundle of database and OS technology.<br>
<br>
The fact that Delphi still exists is amazing in its own right. And it<br>
will be around for quite a while because the Veterans Administration<br>
has one of the largest installed bases of Delphi software in America,<br>
if not in the world, that’s still under active development — and it<br>
would be horribly expensive to replace with M$ technology (although<br>
some does exist).<br>
<br>
If the VA ever releases any mobile apps, there’s a very good chance<br>
they’ll be built with Delphi.<br>
<br>
Because of this relationship with the VA, Delphi has a rather unusual<br>
affinity with medical software developers.<br>
<br>
My earlier point seems to have been missed … if you’re a CIO on a<br>
tight budget and you REALLY want to SAVE MONEY, then it simply makes<br>
no sense to ignore AppMethod or RAD Studio today.<br>
<br>
You cannot talk about either Android or iOS development assuming<br>
there’s only one option any more. Android is _mainly_ Java, while iOS<br>
is _mainly_ Objective-C. But AppMethod/RAD Studio supports both, and<br>
now Swift supports iOS.<br>
<br>
Also don’t ignore the fact that we’re starting to see Android running<br>
on Intel architectures now, which is going to open them up to non-Java<br>
tool stacks as well. (Some of the latest low-end Acer tablets run<br>
KitKat on Intel CPUs.)<br>
<br>
Personally, I see the potential for much more heterogeneity in terms<br>
of development tools for both Android and iOS going forward than we’ve<br>
seen in Windows, if for no other reason than one company does NOT<br>
control both of them. M$ couldn’t persuade any major phone companies<br>
to use their OS, so they simply bought what was for a long time the<br>
market leader. I have no idea what they plan to do with Nokia, but M$<br>
currently has less than 5% of the mobile platform market; perhaps<br>
Nokia can get them to 10%.<br>
<br>
Getting back to that CIO again, now he’s going to be faced hiring yet<br>
ANOTHER developer to work with ANOTHER dev stack for Nokia’s hardware.<br>
<br>
That’s now $300k for 3 people using “free” tools vs. $100k and a<br>
single $5k tool.<br>
<br>
Something’s gotta give. Free tools are simply NOT an economical model<br>
for companies that MUST have a presence on ALL MOBILE PLATFORMS!<br>
<br>
-David<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Aug 4, 2014, at 3:58 PM, <a href="mailto:techlists@phpcoderusa.com" target="_blank">techlists@phpcoderusa.com</a> wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
It all makes sense to me. As for the individual, I still wonder what
the Android market will look like 10 years from now. Since it is
Google's baby I think Android has 30 years in it. Look at M$. It has
taken them 30+ years to become less relevant. Maybe the cycle is
speeding up.... maybe it is now 15 years. 15 years is good enough for
me. The other side is enjoyment. I cannot see myself working on
something I do not like...... Maybe Android development might not be
fulfilling.... I won't know until I get a chance to swim in it, and that
might be after the new year.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2014-08-04 15:41, David Schwartz wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
I understand your point, Keith, but even though Android uses Java, and<br>
Java IS considered “mainstream”, that does not seem to be translating<br>
into making it easy(er) to find Android mobile developers, is it?<br>
The ones out there ARE getting top-dollar, as well as iOS developers.<br>
C++ is also a mainstream language, and if you get RAD Studio, you get<br>
C++, Pascal (Delphi) and php/HTML5 in the same box, at least two of<br>
which ARE “mainstream”.<br>
There’s also their newest offering, AppMethod, which has a pricing<br>
structure more similar to other RAD Mobile development tools. It’s<br>
basically RAD Studio without the Windows-specific stuff (ie., it’s<br>
mobile-centric rather than Windows-centric).<br>
Honestly, Embarcadero is taking a big gamble by investing in their<br>
cross-platform strategy the way they are. Any company seriously<br>
looking at developing the same app for both iOS and Android is stuck<br>
hiring two development teams with two different development tacks and<br>
two different sets of skill sets.<br>
Using RAD Studio or AppMethod, this can be narrowed down to one, eg.,<br>
Delphi/Pascal or C++, for both platforms.<br>
At some point, a not-too-dense CIO is going to ask, “Why do we need<br>
two sets of developers at $100k PER PLATFORM that uses FREE tools when<br>
we can spend $5k and only have to pay $100k for ONE developer?”<br>
It would seem that “free tools” are costing an extra $95k to reach<br>
both platforms.<br>
Don’t you think $5k is a lot more affordable than $95k?<br>
(Ok, so if you’re REALLY CHEAP, it’s $50k rather than $100k, but …<br>
that’s STILL at least 10x the cost of a dual-platform development tool<br>
that ONE person can use!)<br>
-David<br>
On Aug 4, 2014, at 1:56 PM, <a href="mailto:techlists@phpcoderusa.com" target="_blank">techlists@phpcoderusa.com</a> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
In the 80's I began to develop using dBaseII, then dBaseIII...
dBaseIII+, foxBase+, Clipper 87, Visual FoxPro..... It was a great file
server database system that was probably the best tool on the market for
developing small company database applications.<br>
The problem is it was a niche skill set. dBase jobs were few and far
between. I would still be working with FoxPro if M$ had not bought it
and everyone bailed. FoxPro is now dead thanks to M$. That was the
tool of choice for me and I would still be developing with it if it was
up to me.<br>
Having had that experience I am leery of tying my wagon to something
like Delphi. I really enjoyed Turbo Pascal in the early to mid 80's. I'm
sure I would enjoy object oriented Turbo Pascal ie Delphi. I've heard
tons of good things about Dephi going back maybe 10 or 12 years, maybe
longer.<br>
Unfortunately Delphi is not main stream enough for me. I do not want to tie my wagon to another FoxPro.<br>
On 2014-08-04 13:35, David Schwartz wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Delphi is just as easy to use as VB, if not easier.<br>
Have you looked at it lately?<br>
It’s just not considered “mainstream” any longer.<br>
People say, “Oh, is THAT still around?”<br>
Yup. Check it out.<br>
<a href="http://embarcadero.com" target="_blank">http://embarcadero.com</a><br>
They also have a tool they now call HTML5Builder or something along<br>
that line, which is an allusion to their C++ Builder app — a C++<br>
version of Delphi. HTML5Builder is a PHP/HTML5 version.<br>
-David "The Tool Wiz" Schwartz<br>
On Aug 4, 2014, at 11:40 AM, <a href="mailto:techlists@phpcoderusa.com" target="_blank">techlists@phpcoderusa.com</a> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
On 2014-08-04 10:57, David Schwartz wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Now we’ve got a new language: Apple introduced Swift and is making it<br>
available for free, like their other tools. This is going to stimulate<br>
a whole new generation of devleopers to jump into the fray and start<br>
building apps for iOS — apps that are going to be hard to “port” over<br>
to Android platforms, or even web platforms.<br>
I’ve talked with Joe about his app. To his credit, he’s focused mainly<br>
on the app. But what he’s missed is the fact that, IMHO, he’s<br>
over-spec’ed it to the point where you'd need so much custom code to<br>
impement what appears to be a simple tool that he’ll never be happy<br>
with the end result. His UI design makes assumptions based on HIS<br>
experience with *nix shell scripting, and he clearly explains this in<br>
the spec. There are no native widgets that work like “grep” in the<br>
Android world! So he’ll be extremely hard-pressed to find anybody<br>
who’ll build it for him within the budget he’s demanding.<br>
I’ve worked with something called Delphi since Borland introduced it<br>
in 1995. Starting with the XE2 release a few years back, they’ve been<br>
embracing a multi-platform targeting strategy where you can develop<br>
apps in one language that will run on any of the popular platforms:<br>
Windows, OS X, iOS, and Android. And it actually WORKS!<br>
</blockquote>
This is what we need - build once run everywhere. I personally think
web development is way behind in they types of tools we have. I often
wonder why we do not have something like VB that is drag and drop.
Instead we build everything every time. The web dev model is very
expensive.<br>
</blockquote>
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<br>...<br><br>[Message clipped] <a class="vem" target="_blank" href="https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=4622540777&view=om&th=147a78ae736b2ef4">View entire message</a><br><br><br></div>The index at the top of the digest indicated that there was a second thread started in this digest, but as you can see above, the digest was clipped before ever getting to the second subject, so I can only guess at what the contents might have been.<br>
<br></div>Mike<br clear="all"><div><div><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">"Creativity is intelligence having fun." — Albert Einstein</span></div>
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