<div dir="ltr">I wanted to send this to the list, because I think you make some excellent points here. Also just for the record, I'm not necessarily saying I think do web apps for smart phones is better. I'm merely providing POV from someone working in the tech start-up space that that's what the industry is currently leaning towards. I actually prefer native apps myself.<br>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 7:51 AM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:techlists@phpcoderusa.com" target="_blank">techlists@phpcoderusa.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="">On 2014-08-03 19:14, Paul Mooring wrote:<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="">
This is a probably a longer and more involved conversation than you<br>
think. There's a few primary factors in supply and demand for app<br>
developers:<br>
<br>
1. Native vs HTML<br>
<br>
There's a huge difference in the available supply of developers and<br>
companies currently equipped to make an html5 site that plays nice<br>
with both ios and android. I think we're likely to see a<br></div>
proliferation of tools like phonegap (<a href="http://phonegap.com/" target="_blank">http://phonegap.com/</a> [6]) and a<div class=""><br>
slow down of native apps as html apps eat that market share. When<br>
you consider currently ios requires objective-C and android Java, you<br>
have 2 languages with different tool chains and a more involved<br>
development and release process competing against a very well<br>
understood and super fast html/javascript ecosystem. In my opinion<br>
html/js will eat the mobile dev community as quickly and dominantly as<br>
it did for native Windows/OSX applications.<br>
<br>
</div></blockquote>
<br>
This is akin to the argument for browser based applications 10 - 15 years ago. You build an app that runs in a browser and there is no deployment - just point your browser to the website.<br>
<br>
Building browser based apps that rival desktop apps is not easy. It is easier now that we have jQuery et al, however still not as easy as building desktop apps with Visual Basic (VB). It could take 10 - 20 times longer to build a really trick jQuery web app that rivals a VB app. Unless of course you build widgets that can be reused, then you spend a bunch of time the first go around and reuse those widgets. Still a lot of time building those widgets.<br>
<br>
I have not built any Android apps, however I suspect it might be faster to build them than HTML/(MySql/MariaDB)/CSS/<u></u>JavaScript (jQuery). The down side is the different platforms. Which one do you go with and what is the market implications of doing so.<br>
<br>
Of course web apps require a server or at lease some cheap virtual hosting depending on the needs of the app.<div class=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
2. Expanding platforms<br>
<br>
Currently ios and android own the market, but with microsoft,<br>
mozilla, ubuntu, etc. all getting into the mobile os game it's<br>
conceivable that the overall market could keep growing without making<br>
android/java skills a "must have".<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
This is down right ugly.<div class=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
3. Better native app tooling<br>
<br>
Writing full featured web applications 10 years ago was really<br>
hard. Rails, Django, Laravel, etc. along with REST APIs and json<br>
revolutionized how we build web services making it a whole lot<br>
easier. Then much more recently jquery followed by a million<br>
javascript frameworks did the same for front ends. If native android<br>
development keeps growing similar tooling is sure to be built to<br>
drastically reduce the entrance barrier.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
It's still very time consuming and requires skills that come with a learning curve.<br>
<br>
We are still stuck in the 80's with C versus the 90's with Visual Basic. You build your own widgets and development time is through the roof.<br>
<br>
Building mobile web apps takes a considerable amount of skill and arguably two distinct or possibly three distinct skill sets - 1) Programmers, 2) Designers, and 3) JavaScript / jQuery developers. I assume building an Android app requires one skill set - Android programming skills - a much smaller set of skills.<div class="">
<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Overall I think it will become easier/cheaper/faster to build mobile<br>
apps, but I sort of doubt that will manifest itself in the form of<br>
most developers learning and rallying around Java and the Android API.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
Thank you for your thoughts. In a nutshell I think what you are saying is there is high demand presently, the market will fragment, the demand will level out, and we should consider web apps first.<br>
<br>
The thing we have not talk about is marketing. I think this is what is motivating Joe. If one builds browser base application and you want to market it how do you do so? SEO is the main way. As Google continues to refine their algorithm trying to get a website to rank is getting more difficult. The alternative is to spend lots of money on advertising. Both approaches require deep pockets.<br>
<br>
If Joe releases his Android app it might get some traction. And it might be easier to market in the traditional way. The down side is only part of the market can run the app.<br>
<br>
My motivation for asking the question was purely wanting to know if the high demand for Android developers will last. No one can know for sure. While you say the market will splinter, I think Android will be a strong contender. I do not see M$ as a real market player. They have a lot of money and can put a dent in the market, however they seem to miss the boat in so many ways. Linux is such a better operating system and demands so much less resources to run efficiently. Now Apple is a big dog!! And they seem to do a lot of things right. Isn't OSX based on FreeBSD? Doesn't that make them cousins with Linux/Android? Could we see the merging of tools in this area?<br>
<br>
Thank you for your thoughts!!<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="h5">
<br>
On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 4:35 PM, <<a href="mailto:techlists@phpcoderusa.com" target="_blank">techlists@phpcoderusa.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="h5">
Hi Paul,<br>
<br>
One would think that Andriod programming is going to be with us for<br>
year... decade at least. However that begs the question, what do<br>
you (or anyone else) think the long term demand will be?<br>
Increasing or decreasing?<br>
<br>
Is there any barriers to entry like a nasty learning curve?<br>
Specialized hardware? ETC...<br>
<br>
I think I looked at the SDK about a year ago and as I recall it<br>
looked to be Java based and then I think I was told of a C++ SDK.<br>
IIRC - I think it was something that looked to take a little<br>
effort to learn but not too bad.<br>
<br>
I think i recall something about using JavaScript.....?<br>
<br>
Thanks!<br>
Keith<br>
<br>
On 2014-08-03 16:09, Paul Mooring wrote:<br>
<br>
Not to discourage you from trying to make this happen, but a bit of<br>
perspective might help. Currently android/java developers are in<br>
great demand, where I live the average salary is around $110,000/yr<br>
or<br>
roughly $2100/week. Having done a bit of contract/outsourcing<br>
work<br>
myself, I can tell you the experienced contractors/developers<br>
intended<br>
to lose as much as a weeks time on any project just trying to<br>
understand what needs to happen and working with the stake holders<br>
to<br>
make changes along the lines of "one more simple thing". The take<br>
away is there's going to be a minimum price/complexity to justify<br>
taking on a project for a skilled/competent developer and if your<br>
app<br>
doesn't meet that benchmark you're going to have hard time<br>
finding a<br>
U.S. based competent developer interested in it.<br>
<br>
This doesn't mean it's a bad idea or you shouldn't do it, just keep<br>
in<br>
mind that while you may be really passionate about your idea to<br>
developers it's one of many offers to work on a contract for an<br>
individual offering below market rates. That's a great fit<br>
for <br>
contractors in India, students or a dev trying to expand her skill<br>
set<br>
(web dev still learning mobile apps, etc.) but not so appealing to<br>
established professionals.<br>
<br>
On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 10:04 AM, <<a href="mailto:joe@actionline.com" target="_blank">joe@actionline.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Wanted: Android App Developer $??? Reward ...<br>
<br>
How can I find a skilled/competent/reasonably priced Android App<br>
Developer ... preferrably Arizona local or at least in the U.S.?<br>
<br></div></div>
I've tried <a href="http://elance.com" target="_blank">elance.com</a> [1] [1] and <a href="http://odesk.com" target="_blank">odesk.com</a> [2] [2] and several<div class=""><br>
similar<br>
<br>
sites, without<br>
success. Mostly get proposals from India and Pakistan, etc.<br>
<br>
I'm willing to pay up to $1,000 (perhaps more) to get the results<br>
we need<br>
for an app to read, scroll, flip pages, and search within a book.<br>
Should<br>
be relatively simple and straight-forward. Need to be able to add<br>
to the<br>
content and submit updates to the Google playstore myself.<br>
<br>
See my first-attempt (which does not yet work as well as we need it<br>
to)<br>
here:<br>
<br>
<br>
</div></blockquote>
<a href="https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.CompareBibleVersionsPackage" target="_blank">https://play.google.com/store/<u></u>apps/details?id=com.<u></u>CompareBibleVersionsPackage</a><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="">
[3]<br>
[3]<br>
<br>
Please respond either here or off-line to joe(at)<a href="http://actionline.com" target="_blank">actionline.com</a> [4]<br>
[4]<br>
<br>
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<br>
--<br>
<br>
Paul Mooring<br>
Operations Engineer<br>
Chef<br>
<br>
Links:<br>
------<br></div>
[1] <a href="http://elance.com" target="_blank">http://elance.com</a> [1]<br>
[2] <a href="http://odesk.com" target="_blank">http://odesk.com</a> [2]<br>
[3]<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<a href="https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.CompareBibleVersionsPackage" target="_blank">https://play.google.com/store/<u></u>apps/details?id=com.<u></u>CompareBibleVersionsPackage</a><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
[3]<br>
[4] <a href="http://actionline.com" target="_blank">http://actionline.com</a> [4]<br>
[5] <a href="http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.phxlinux.org/<u></u>mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss</a> [5]<div class=""><br>
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To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:<br>
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</div></blockquote><div class="">
<br>
--<br>
<br>
Paul Mooring<br>
Operations Engineer<br>
Chef<br>
<br>
Links:<br>
------<br>
[1] <a href="http://elance.com" target="_blank">http://elance.com</a><br>
[2] <a href="http://odesk.com" target="_blank">http://odesk.com</a><br>
[3]<br>
<a href="https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.CompareBibleVersionsPackage" target="_blank">https://play.google.com/store/<u></u>apps/details?id=com.<u></u>CompareBibleVersionsPackage</a><br>
[4] <a href="http://actionline.com" target="_blank">http://actionline.com</a><br>
[5] <a href="http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.phxlinux.org/<u></u>mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss</a><br></div>
[6] <a href="http://phonegap.com/" target="_blank">http://phonegap.com/</a><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr">Paul Mooring<div>Operations Engineer</div><div>Chef</div></div>
</div>