computer slow

Brien Dieterle briend at gmail.com
Mon Oct 30 16:39:19 MST 2017 

30 mins is plenty for a test.  Try to get sensors output just before a crash

On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 4:25 PM, Michael <bmike1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> how long do you want me to run glmark2 for? Forever is not feasible!
>
> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 7:22 PM, Michael <bmike1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> as for the shutoff point everything that had anything to do with cutting
>> power was already diabled
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Michael <bmike1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>  $ sensors
>>> radeon-pci-0100
>>> Adapter: PCI adapter
>>> temp1:        +68.0°C
>>>
>>> k10temp-pci-00c3
>>> Adapter: PCI adapter
>>> temp1:        +45.1°C  (high = +70.0°C)
>>>                        (crit = +72.0°C, hyst = +70.0°C)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 7:07 PM, Brien Dieterle <briend at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, it might be protecting your computer but if it is too low it will
>>>> just be annoying.
>>>> You still need to run sensors and get those numbers if you haven't yet:
>>>>
>>>> https://askubuntu.com/questions/15832/how-do-i-get-the-cpu-temperature
>>>>
>>>> If your machine is legitimately overheating you need to address that
>>>> with fans and ventilation, etc.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 3:59 PM, Michael <bmike1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> if there is a shutoff point you did say disable it?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 6:56 PM, Brien Dieterle <briend at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, you're on the right track.  Try to isolate whether glmark alone
>>>>>> can crash it, or if you need stress as well.   Then try opening up your
>>>>>> case and point a fan in there.
>>>>>> Also don't forget to check the BIOS for thermal management events
>>>>>> that might be causing the shutdown/reboot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 3:52 PM, Michael <bmike1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> never mind..... I ran glmark around 5 minutes and then stress. that
>>>>>>> crashed the machine! Not a nice reboot (like what it does with dt) but a
>>>>>>> power failure outage,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 6:41 PM, Michael <bmike1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and if glmark2 doesn't crash it run stress the same amount of time?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Michael <bmike1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> how long do I let glmark2's pretty horse rotate?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 6:36 PM, Michael <bmike1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> okay
>>>>>>>>>> `
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Brien Dieterle <briend at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'd wait.   If stress alone doesn't crash, run glmark2 by
>>>>>>>>>>> itself.  If glmark2 doesn't crash, run them both at the same time.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 3:01 PM, Michael <bmike1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> run this now or after stress completes?
>>>>>>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 5:59 PM, Brien Dieterle <
>>>>>>>>>>>> briend at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, not yet ;-).   If it doesn't crash, you might need to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> stress the graphics card as well with one of these tools:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.pcsuggest.com/gpu-benchmarking-and-stress-testin
>>>>>>>>>>>>> g-in-linux/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So maybe kick off both stress and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> glmark2 --run-forever
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 2:55 PM, Michael <bmike1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if it doesn't crash I'll start hounding the darktable forums.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 5:45 PM, Michael <bmike1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just started..... lets see what happens
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 5:36 PM, Brien Dieterle <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> briend at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Forget darktable for now.  Did you run stress test for more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than 10 seconds?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This will run a stress test for 30 minutes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stress --cpu 8 --io 4 --vm 2  --hdd 2 --timeout 1800s
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you can get it to crash with just this stress program,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then it has nothing to do with darktable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 2:24 PM, Michael <bmike1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no sensors running and as for it panicing when warm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sometimes it panics after I run dt 2 minutes after it had been shut down an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hour  and doesn't panic even though dt had run10 minutes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Brien Dieterle <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> briend at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Check your bios settings for hardware monitoring and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temperature limits.  You may have it set with a maximum temperature so the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machine panics when it's just warm.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Try raising this number or disabling the feature entirely
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But first check your sensors by installing a temperature
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> monitoring program
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2017 1:04 PM, "Michael" <bmike1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is sooo ify! I just ran it for like 10 minutes with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no crashes whereas before I had just started the computer and ran dt for 2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minutes and it crashed. Then I restarted and I had a repeat performance of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 2 minute thing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 3:38 PM, Michael <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bmike1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  $ stress --cpu 8 --io 4 --vm 2 --vm-bytes 128M
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --timeout 10s
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stress: info: [7571] dispatching hogs: 8 cpu, 4 io, 2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vm, 0 hdd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stress: info: [7571] successful run completed in 10s
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  I don't know what that was suppossed to tell me but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there it is.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 3:36 PM, Michael <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bmike1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am experiencing no slowness. It is like the days
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where you had a power switch on the back of your computer... or it is like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a hard reboot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 3:33 PM, Stephen Partington <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cryptworks at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OpenCL in darktable mainly impacts rendering. it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should have no effect on on system or ram consumption unless you are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experiencing slowness during render cycles.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Michael <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bmike1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You know.... I'm having trouble running darktable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems that after I start it it runs a few minutes and then reboots the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computer. Probably because I do not have a GPU (I don't think). Then I saw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this thread and thought that I'd give that a try. So it seems I can not run
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chrome and darktable at the same time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ___
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'lspci' shows that my graphics card is :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RV770 [Radeon HD 4850]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and 'lspci|grep gpu' returned an empty set
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (if I did that correctly)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so I suppose the cheapest way to fix this is to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a gpu.... correct?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 12:09 PM, Carruth, Rusty <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rusty.Carruth at smartm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In my experience, it’s almost always Firefox taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all of memory. (Or Chrome, or whatever web browser you’re using).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with Mr B, run top or htop and see what’s,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well, on top ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rusty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: SMART_HRS_RGB]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rusty Carruth | Customer Support | *rusty.carruth at smarth.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rusty.carruth at smarth.com>* | http://www.smarth.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>       [image: linkedin]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/12955027/>   [image:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> twitter] <https://twitter.com/@MilSSD>See the new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M4[image: cid:image004.jpg at 01D348E7.AF930710]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.marketwired.com/press-release/smart-high-reliability-solutions-announces-availability-its-new-highly-ruggedized-highly-2235071.htm>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> See us on Storage Search
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.storagesearch.com/smart2.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 510-624-5391 <(510)%20624-5391>   | Fax:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 480-926-5579 <(480)%20926-5579>   | 1325 N. Fiesta
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blvd.  Suite 101 Gilbert, Az. 85233
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* PLUG-discuss [mailto:plug-discuss-bounces at l
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ists.phxlinux.org] *On Behalf Of *Michael Butash
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 29, 2017 10:05 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* Main PLUG discussion list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: computer slow
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If I ever have that, it's usually because of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something with a memory leak, or desktop graphic compositing is degrading
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Before you reboot, see if you can ssh into it from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another computer and check htop (or just top all you have), see if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something is consuming all your memory or cpu.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Desktop compositors are all shite from what I can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell (including windoze), they're all just a varying degree of broken when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you push them, or just have a slow (or buggy) video card.  Depending on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your desktop environment of choice, try turning down graphics options, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabling the compositor all together to see if it helps stability.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -mb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 3:41 AM, Michael <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bmike1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm almost certain that in my bag of tricks I had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instructions on 'resetting' my computer when it started acting weird but I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't find them. Riddle me this: I try to leave the computer on 24/7 (maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I shouldn't do that) and twice so far I come up to it and it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-responsive or really slow to respond. Anyone know how to fix this?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> snooze button.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stephen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
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>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>
>
>
>
> --
> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>
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