Where'd the love go?

Sun Nov 30 15:30:24 MST 2014

What is this bickering? I mean seriously, aren't we all in support of the
advancement of Linux. Lisa's event is there to help people learn the
capabilities of Linux so isn't that good enough reason to include it on
Plug's website?
______________
Lisa,

to me, being someone who has a good relationship with PLUG and Hans, I
feel that your post is offensive, not just to Hans, but to everyone who
considers PLUG to be a positive influence for the greater metro Phoenix
area.

Can the functioning of PLUG be improved? Of course, like almost
everything. I for my part appreciate the work PLUG (and by extension
Hans) is doing, and given the demands of our individual lives, I believe
it is commendable!

Regarding your claims of sexual harassment, you might want to consider
its definition (which, as you might now, governs the workplace). I found
this link
http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/sexual_harassment.cfm From the
information I have, it seems unlikely that what you describe would
qualify for sexual harassment!

I think your post abundantly shows your displeasure with the way things
are, and you don't have to repeat it any more. If you have such a low
opinion of matters relating to PLUG, you always have the options to
either branch out on your own, or find an organization with which you
can have a better relationship.

I wish you lots of success with the hackfest and other efforts you
undertake, and I hope you are sufficiently motivated by their benefits,
and can accept others making decisions about calendar entries that you
disagree with.

Walter

On 11/30/2014 08:22 AM, Lisa Kachold wrote:

* > Hans/(All), > > PLUG (aka Hans [since actually no leadership was ever
allowed] is > going to have to state the rules under which you are
"dismissing" via > schedule removal a healthy regular popular venue. > >
PLUG (aka Hans "Luft") is going to have to reference when those rules >
were published and when they were delivered to me. > > EVERYONE has
historically had their own website, because PLUG does not > allow: > > 1)
Specific wording in announcements. > 2) Submitting additional announcements
and extensive innovative content. > 3) Presentation postings. > > Examples
of other historic users (in good standing) with their own > websites to
support their presentations and community endeavors include: > > Ryan Rix >
Alan Dayley > Joseph Sinclair > Brian Cluff > Alexander Henry > > The PLUG
(lack of structure and rules/guidelines) consistent with > other cities of
comparable sizes (specific examples are Seattle, Los > Angeles and
Portland) has kept the group from becoming all that a LUG > can be. > >
Older retired penguins have devoted thousands of hours and dollars > each
year purchasing their own equipment for community venues like > Installfest
without anyone in PLUG "leadership" even getting a 501(c)3 > rider under
another PLUG to allow income tax relief. > > Here's a long list of past
discussions that echo these limitations and >
issues: > > http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20100205.085425.dbace92f.en.html
<http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20100205.085425.dbace92f.en.html>
> > http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20130508.020509.d70d1744.en.html
<http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20130508.020509.d70d1744.en.html>
> > http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20090806.163922.37c4d455.en.html
<http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20090806.163922.37c4d455.en.html>
> > http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20101108.063046.7219d889.en.html
<http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20101108.063046.7219d889.en.html> > >
The ramifications of PLUG (aka Hans "Luft") limiting announcements and >
venues (like the HackFest) that promote continuing educational schools >
(other than Mesa Community College [where he has been adjunct > teacher])
are obvious. > > The ramifications of PLUG (aka Hans "Luft") "dropping" a 7
year > successful event like the HackFest is HUGE. > > I have been long
contacted by members active for many years who want > support to backup
recommendations to disband the PLUG (or remove > "Presidential
dictatorship") with a long laundry list of reasons from > sexual harassment
(Example: Hans raising his wedding ring clad finger > to women as they wait
to speak with him about PLUG matters during > public community events
[which I have experienced twice myself]) to > outright misuse of funding (
[tee shirts and donations from local > businesses] and PLUG
interns/students raising money for sister project > ABLEConf) as well as
inappropriate steering to classes at Mesa > Community College during
"OpenSource" community venues. > > I have stayed out of escalation of those
issues to other authorities, > but "Silence is DEATH" and a Linux Users
Group where membership live > in threat of social ostracism and promote via
"inner circle > relationships" (or make decisions like drop a healthy venue
without > written rules or warning) is nothing more than a "GANG" and is >
destined to die. > > 1) Please show me the rules under which removal of the
HackFests from > the calendar was made? If there was a scheduling issue,
why was I not > called or allowed to reschedule? Our security community and
active > interns have been historically very changeable and this could be >
easily arranged at DeVry University who also provide a rack at OneNeck. >
2) Please show me the rules that state posting a discussion to more > than
one mailing list with the same content is disallowed? It is not > on any of
the mailing list phxlinux.org <http://phxlinux.org> <http://phxlinux.org
<http://phxlinux.org/>> pages? > > 3) And while we are talking about it,
please show me the rules (in any > PLUG) that state that we can't have TWO
PLUG EVENTS on the same day? > Is that because the website php CMS software
won't allow it? [/LAUGH] > > I have a HackFest iPhone and Android app ready
(which can be released > in the next week) to submit to Google Play and
Apple Store. I will > happily leave the phxlinux.org <http://phxlinux.org>
<http://phxlinux.org <http://phxlinux.org/>> and PLUG name out > of that
code. > > Thanks for "allowing me" to continue to announce the HackFests on
the > mailing lists. > > Happy ThanksGiving > > On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at
1:08 AM, der.hans <PLUGd at lufthans.com <PLUGd at lufthans.com> >
<mailto:PLUGd at lufthans.com <PLUGd at lufthans.com>>> wrote: >> Am 29. Nov,
2014 schwätzte Lisa Kachold so:>> moin moin Lisa,>> I was curious as to why
you have removed the Hackfests (2nd > Saturday of > every month) afrom the
PLUG Calendar?> >> You've been acting as a seperate group for years. You
have your > own web > site and mailing list for your group.> > >> You may
continue announcing your events on the list, but please stop >
cross-posting to multiple lists.>> ciao,>> der.hans> >> Hackfests have been
going strong since 2008 and have students > from ITT and > strong support
from DeVry where instructors provide extra > credit to their > security
students for attendance.>> DeVry University provides a rack for PLUG use
(providing it is > actually > used in context with student related open
source activities) > at OneNeck > which is populated with a VMWare ESXi 5.5
server, OpenVPN > server, Security > Onion, Metasploitable and other images
for demonstration > purposes, all of > which has been built entirely with
community contributed > assets and intern > effort. We contribute Kali CD's
for lab demonstration use, > promotional tee > shirts and shared DefCon
videos each year.>> We have a large following of local security
professionals, > with visits from > University of Phoenix, Palo Verde
Nuclear, Department of the > Army and > GoDaddy staff.>> I have received no
notice related to any new requirements or > change?>> I have posted monthly
announcements to the PLUG Announce list > since 2008 > and have never been
notified of any other PLUG requirements?>> Please add this great linux
security lab venue back to the > PLUG Schedule.>> 2nd Saturday of every
month 11:00 - 2:00 PM. > DeVry University>> Thanks> >> -- > #
http://www.LuftHans.com/ <http://www.lufthans.com/>
http://www.PhxLinux.org/ <http://www.phxlinux.org/> > # A Polish friend of
mine got an offer for a free account from > AOL. The > # login ID was
"HELLO" and the passwd "CYMBAL". She says "cymbal" > is like > # a Polish
word for "sucker". 'Hello sucker', a greeting from > AOHell :).> > > > >
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:-)~MIKE~(-:
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