Why have HackFests been Dropped from the PLUG Schedule?

Walter Mack wmack at componentsw.com
Sun Nov 30 10:23:30 MST 2014


Lisa,

to me, being someone who has a good relationship with PLUG and Hans, I 
feel that your post is offensive, not just to Hans, but to everyone who 
considers PLUG to be a positive influence for the greater metro Phoenix 
area.

Can the functioning of PLUG be improved? Of course, like almost 
everything. I for my part appreciate the work PLUG (and by extension 
Hans) is doing, and given the demands of our individual lives, I believe 
it is commendable!

Regarding your claims of sexual harassment, you might want to consider 
its definition (which, as you might now, governs the workplace). I found 
this link
http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/sexual_harassment.cfm From the 
information I have, it seems unlikely that what you describe would 
qualify for sexual harassment!

I think your post abundantly shows your displeasure with the way things 
are, and you don't have to repeat it any more. If you have such a low 
opinion of matters relating to PLUG, you always have the options to 
either branch out on your own, or find an organization with which you 
can have a better relationship.

I wish you lots of success with the hackfest and other efforts you 
undertake, and I hope you are sufficiently motivated by their benefits, 
and can accept others making decisions about calendar entries that you 
disagree with.

Walter



On 11/30/2014 08:22 AM, Lisa Kachold wrote:
> Hans/(All),
>
> PLUG (aka Hans [since actually no leadership was ever allowed] is 
> going to have to state the rules under which you are "dismissing" via 
> schedule removal a healthy regular popular venue.
>
> PLUG (aka Hans "Luft")  is going to have to reference when those rules 
> were published and when they were delivered to me.
>
> EVERYONE has historically had their own website, because PLUG does not 
> allow:
>
> 1) Specific wording in announcements.
> 2) Submitting additional announcements and extensive innovative content.
> 3) Presentation postings.
>
> Examples of other historic users (in good standing) with their own 
> websites to support their presentations and community endeavors include:
>
> Ryan Rix
> Alan Dayley
> Joseph Sinclair
> Brian Cluff
> Alexander Henry
>
> The PLUG (lack of structure and rules/guidelines) consistent with 
> other cities of comparable sizes (specific examples are Seattle, Los 
> Angeles and Portland) has kept the group from becoming all that a LUG 
> can be.
>
> Older retired penguins have devoted thousands of hours and dollars 
> each year purchasing their own equipment for community venues like 
> Installfest without anyone in PLUG "leadership" even getting a 501(c)3 
> rider under another PLUG to allow income tax relief.
>
> Here's a long list of past discussions that echo these limitations and 
> issues:
>
> http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20100205.085425.dbace92f.en.html
>
> http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20130508.020509.d70d1744.en.html
>
> http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20090806.163922.37c4d455.en.html
>
> http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20101108.063046.7219d889.en.html
>
> The ramifications of PLUG (aka Hans "Luft") limiting announcements and 
> venues (like the HackFest) that promote continuing educational schools 
> (other than Mesa Community College [where he has been adjunct 
> teacher]) are obvious.
>
> The ramifications of PLUG (aka Hans "Luft") "dropping" a 7 year 
> successful event like the HackFest is HUGE.
>
> I have been long contacted by members active for many years who want 
> support to backup recommendations to disband the PLUG (or remove 
> "Presidential dictatorship")  with a long laundry list of reasons from 
> sexual harassment (Example: Hans raising his wedding ring clad finger 
> to women as they wait to speak with him about PLUG matters during 
> public community events [which I have experienced twice myself])  to 
> outright misuse of funding ( [tee shirts and donations from local 
> businesses] and PLUG interns/students raising money for sister project 
> ABLEConf) as well as inappropriate steering to classes at Mesa 
> Community College during "OpenSource" community venues.
>
> I have stayed out of escalation of those issues to other authorities, 
> but "Silence is DEATH" and a Linux Users Group where membership live 
> in threat of social ostracism and promote via "inner circle 
> relationships" (or make decisions like drop a healthy venue without 
> written rules or warning) is nothing more than a "GANG" and is 
> destined to die.
>
> 1) Please show me the rules under which removal of the HackFests from 
> the calendar was made?  If there was a scheduling issue, why was I not 
> called or allowed to reschedule?  Our security community and active 
> interns have been historically very changeable and this could be 
> easily arranged at DeVry University who also provide a rack at OneNeck.
> 2) Please show me the rules that state posting a discussion to more 
> than one mailing list with the same content is disallowed?   It is not 
> on any of the mailing list phxlinux.org <http://phxlinux.org> pages?
>
> 3) And while we are talking about it, please show me the rules (in any 
> PLUG) that state that we can't have TWO PLUG EVENTS on the same day?  
> Is that because the website php CMS software won't allow it? [/LAUGH]
>
> I have a HackFest iPhone and Android app ready (which can be released 
> in the next week) to submit to Google Play and Apple Store. I will 
> happily leave the phxlinux.org <http://phxlinux.org> and PLUG name out 
> of that code.
>
> Thanks for "allowing me" to continue to announce the HackFests on the 
> mailing lists.
>
> Happy ThanksGiving
>
> On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 1:08 AM, der.hans <PLUGd at lufthans.com 
> <mailto:PLUGd at lufthans.com>> wrote:
>
>     Am 29. Nov, 2014 schwätzte Lisa Kachold so:
>
>     moin moin Lisa,
>
>         I was curious as to why you have removed the Hackfests (2nd
>         Saturday of
>         every month) afrom the PLUG Calendar?
>
>
>     You've been acting as a seperate group for years. You have your
>     own web
>     site and mailing list for your group.
>
>
>
>     You may continue announcing your events on the list, but please stop
>     cross-posting to multiple lists.
>
>     ciao,
>
>     der.hans
>
>
>         Hackfests have been going strong since 2008 and have students
>         from ITT and
>         strong support from DeVry where instructors provide extra
>         credit to their
>         security students for attendance.
>
>         DeVry University provides a rack for PLUG use (providing it is
>         actually
>         used in context with student related open source activities)
>         at OneNeck
>         which is populated with a VMWare ESXi 5.5 server, OpenVPN
>         server, Security
>         Onion, Metasploitable and other images for demonstration
>         purposes, all of
>         which has been built entirely with community contributed
>         assets and intern
>         effort.  We contribute Kali CD's for lab demonstration use,
>         promotional tee
>         shirts and shared DefCon videos each year.
>
>         We have a large following of local security professionals,
>         with visits from
>         University of Phoenix, Palo Verde Nuclear, Department of the
>         Army and
>         GoDaddy staff.
>
>         I have received no notice related to any new requirements or
>         change?
>
>         I have posted monthly announcements to the PLUG Announce list
>         since 2008
>         and have never been notified of any other PLUG requirements?
>
>         Please add this great linux security lab venue back to the
>         PLUG Schedule.
>
>         2nd Saturday  of every month 11:00 - 2:00 PM.
>         DeVry University
>
>         Thanks
>
>
>     -- 
>     # http://www.LuftHans.com/ http://www.PhxLinux.org/
>     #  A Polish friend of mine got an offer for a free account from
>     AOL. The
>     #  login ID was "HELLO" and the passwd "CYMBAL". She says "cymbal"
>     is like
>     #  a Polish word for "sucker". 'Hello sucker', a greeting from
>     AOHell :).
>
>
>
>
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