OT: Secret spying on your Internet activity?

Wed Jul 3 13:25:50 MST 2013

Eric, I'm in the Army, so, in part, I represent that force. I would never
be complicit in any operation against US citizens. I would take my chances
being locked up in Ft. Leavenworth if it came down to it. Force is
definitely real, but the authority to use it exists only in our minds. If
nobody is willing to pull the trigger in the hypothetical scenario you
posited, and I know that I am far from the only one whom would refuse such
orders, then there is no threat. If we raise children that believe in
reason over superstition and trust in ethics over authority (and live that
way ourselves when we can), eventually there will be no thugs left. While
it isn't fast or glamorous change, it is something we can work towards that
makes a positive difference.

Most of the killing, waterboarding, etc. are only possible because Muslims
have been so dehumanized in military culture (and in US culture at large).
All Muslims are Hajj, and Hajj is a cowardly, murdering pedophile
(sometimes true, but most just want us to leave them alone), so any
violence toward them is deserved. Convincing soldiers to to see their
family, neighbors and countrymen that way is much more difficult.

On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 10:42 PM, Eric Cope <eric.cope at gmail.com> wrote:

> Don't forget they have more and bigger guns than you. Force is real.
> Threat of force is real. Don't believe me? Let's waterboard you until you
> agree.
>
>
>
> On Jul 2, 2013, at 7:13 PM, Sam il Kreimeyer <skreimey at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Lisa, I've been trying to make that point for a long time. Power is
> ultimately only what you believe it is. The NSA (a fictional abstraction of
> self-responsible individuals), is only as powerful as people's belief in
> its authority and willingness to act on those beliefs.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6b70TUbdfs
> This video provides a nice graphical representation of the reality of the
> situation.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 7:08 PM, Eric Cope <eric.cope at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> seems on topic to this off topic discussion...
>>
>>
>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/text-of-a-july-2-2013-letter-to-edward-snowden-from-his-father-and-fathers-attorney/2013/07/02/e62ff87e-e350-11e2-bffd-37a36ddab820_story.html
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 4:01 PM, keith smith <klsmith2020 at yahoo.com>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Just say no to FEEMA!  If you say no to ObamaCare it will cost you some
>>> tax dollars (fine).  If you say no to gun control you might go to jail.
>>>
>>> ------------------------
>>> Keith Smith
>>>
>>> --- On *Tue, 7/2/13, skreimey at gmail.com <skreimey at gmail.com>* wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: skreimey at gmail.com <skreimey at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: OT: Secret spying on your Internet activity?
>>> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>
>>> Date: Tuesday, July 2, 2013, 8:55 AM
>>>
>>> Writing my reps didn't accomplish much during TARP. Finding ways to not
>>> participate in or support policies you oppose in your daily life is
>>> probably the most effective form of activism.
>>>
>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Reply message -----
>>> From: "keith smith" <klsmith2020 at yahoo.com>
>>> To: "Ken" <parabellum7 at yahoo.com>, "Main PLUG discussion list" <
>>> plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>
>>> Subject: OT: Secret spying on your Internet activity?
>>> Date: Mon, Jul 1, 2013 5:01 PM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I would vet them first.  You can always call, email, or fax your us rep
>>> and us senators.
>>>
>>> This looks like a Gov site.  If it is I'd stay away.
>>>
>>> ------------------------
>>> Keith Smith
>>>
>>> --- On *Mon, 7/1/13, Ken <parabellum7 at yahoo.com>* wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Ken <parabellum7 at yahoo.com>
>>> Subject: OT: Secret spying on your Internet activity?
>>> To: "plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org" <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>
>>> Date: Monday, July 1, 2013, 1:17 PM
>>>
>>> Are these online petitions worth signing? Or is it just a way to get
>>> your email addy on more spam lists?
>>>
>>>
>>> -K
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   ----- Forwarded Message -----
>>>  *From:* Change.org <mail at change.org>
>>> *To:* parabellum7 at yahoo.com
>>> *Sent:* Monday, July 1, 2013 9:39 AM
>>> *Subject:* Secret spying on your Internet activity?
>>>
>>>           [image: Change.org]<http://email.change.org/wf/click?upn=BizydprrY4ejVwB6tCsPq-2F-2FX2-2BNXx8E-2Ff00lPssjFuA-3D_waxN-2FayPhGkz6DM9IZfKtgQuTrpSJsM0Hjbo7D7f9hnMAzY0CJjYky-2FGHGgHLrljIG6EN-2BTwh2f-2BXid6IYhdpgN7eW4Dx9h6RnnmfnTX56iVX-2BZX-2BDEWnffKuFlnpedWaiSKm6iA-2BtSGVf1ngjtP3NARaFLQncsb6QodpZ2RWqByJO-2FxS3sbZ4c5oIcCY011YL2Xk0mgWa0EkJ8Gq8fs5BTNynVp7b6FfsR7ilSB8w83JPYVvsOxT3kFGIyQ7LZ12cPyBOoXCI7gtwg8RZKJmA-3D-3D>
>>>               *Ken* - There's a new petition taking off on Change.org,
>>> and we think you might be interested in signing it:
>>>             <http://email.change.org/wf/click?upn=L4wUyO6b13sjdmUXmXaF3ImVTD6G6GFyhYT-2F9kLEoC-2Bh9CqsdU4ynONTJ6skFJN3qKgIucR6n35B-2BaxwC0Pq2sgPVv3FohPnXvsUCa0EZRDrpfr9ljUq2HUQAQDh8sCgMwSQakv9osVjpZDek7AuphE1KQZRK0xy5A-2BX6mevoff5aP2HMk5Iqj-2FFvHauQSLLoQEtFzQGhRL47PvWc5Kafyql1o480YZIOK5LtBJVFlMy7DXxKWKbVAQdr1RVopTZ_waxN-2FayPhGkz6DM9IZfKtgQuTrpSJsM0Hjbo7D7f9hnMAzY0CJjYky-2FGHGgHLrljIG6EN-2BTwh2f-2BXid6IYhdpgN7eW4Dx9h6RnnmfnTX56iVX-2BZX-2BDEWnffKuFlnpedWY0VTqQSMQwFv2YGBcpa8Zr-2BCHXimETZAk-2Fba6QA9hiIDFIBOoqmEdVzkyxzm77rAK1d55mgNnGl5wmcnUOse6cg8tRt5HYORtCXmGrcme5Ibo9Y5Fd3qeK4dnlARxGb8cjylfAoe55yY259-2BHp5XMQ-3D-3D>      Eric
>>> Holder: Allow tech companies to publish NSA PRISM data
>>> <http://email.change.org/wf/click?upn=L4wUyO6b13sjdmUXmXaF3ImVTD6G6GFyhYT-2F9kLEoC-2Bh9CqsdU4ynONTJ6skFJN3qKgIucR6n35B-2BaxwC0Pq2sgPVv3FohPnXvsUCa0EZRDrpfr9ljUq2HUQAQDh8sCgMwSQakv9osVjpZDek7AuphE1KQZRK0xy5A-2BX6mevoff5aP2HMk5Iqj-2FFvHauQSLLoQEtFzQGhRL47PvWc5Kafyql1o480YZIOK5LtBJVFlMy7DXxKWKbVAQdr1RVopTZ_waxN-2FayPhGkz6DM9IZfKtgQuTrpSJsM0Hjbo7D7f9hnMAzY0CJjYky-2FGHGgHLrljIG6EN-2BTwh2f-2BXid6IYhdpgN7eW4Dx9h6RnnmfnTX56iVX-2BZX-2BDEWnffKuFlnpedWjcfC5vJ0AE6hVXGHCs9PenYkAoe5SSKOOoMN9nm7DgPn0AbjkM5mcAMdiD-2BLCutXHqko7es271x-2BHQtg6iecyqMAEoiYQxd4IY6qIPYdc3-2BQ9IvMBGLO71Ba5lHqibzajq9vUp-2BJYa4aKgjkmwPhRw-3D-3D>       By Alec F.   Alameda, California
>>>  Sign Alec's Petition
>>> <http://email.change.org/wf/click?upn=L4wUyO6b13sjdmUXmXaF3ImVTD6G6GFyhYT-2F9kLEoC-2Bh9CqsdU4ynONTJ6skFJN3qKgIucR6n35B-2BaxwC0Pq2sgPVv3FohPnXvsUCa0EZRDrpfr9ljUq2HUQAQDh8sCgMwSQakv9osVjpZDek7AuphE1KQZRK0xy5A-2BX6mevoff5aP2HMk5Iqj-2FFvHauQSLLoQEtFzQGhRL47PvWc5Kafyql1o480YZIOK5LtBJVFlMy7DXxKWKbVAQdr1RVopTZ_waxN-2FayPhGkz6DM9IZfKtgQuTrpSJsM0Hjbo7D7f9hnMAzY0CJjYky-2FGHGgHLrljIG6EN-2BTwh2f-2BXid6IYhdpgN7eW4Dx9h6RnnmfnTX56iVX-2BZX-2BDEWnffKuFlnpedW0fP5idSm3t1h0ki0TiThMdTl-2B-2B6NPaTV0JR7i-2Be7bJAoDLJjuy5LZqBomu24-2Bpo-2B6kAZ45HeR4Li-2Fmq8BuOtA2dTMHBZ4ISTstO-2Bg-2FTtGpYGLusaZsjm5OIkbPQz5vBPn1N85FR2Uq0sgcvsed7PJw-3D-3D>
>>>             After a leak of documents from the National Security Agency
>>> showed that a secret program called PRISM allows widespread surveillance of
>>> U.S. citizens' phone and internet activities with some of the world's
>>> biggest tech corporations, the nation is concerned and confused about our
>>> privacy rights.
>>> President Obama and the NSA have stated that widespread spying of
>>> Americans is not taking place and that the government is only requesting
>>> certain data from these companies. There is an easy way to show if this is
>>> true and that companies like Google, Facebook, Microsoft, and Twitter have
>>> taken the commendable step of requesting that the NSA allow them to publish
>>> the records of government data requests in their company transparency
>>> reports.
>>> In part, Google's letter states:
>>> *Assertions in the press that our compliance with these requests gives
>>> the U.S. government unfettered access to our users’ data are simply untrue.
>>> However, government nondisclosure obligations regarding the number of FISA
>>> national security requests that Google receives, as well as the number of
>>> accounts covered by those requests, fuel that speculation.*
>>> *
>>> We therefore ask you to help make it possible for Google to publish in
>>> our Transparency Report<http://email.change.org/wf/click?upn=1mmeex-2FjZn-2FwcNsRwSa6Vb1BAjT-2Fy11qFaLyn60GQxdkFjG0h2LCmON6FueK8875hyVQ3-2F2RksE7Cv2-2B5N91TVNKfrMASCuSq3bk3Ud3YmM-3D_waxN-2FayPhGkz6DM9IZfKtgQuTrpSJsM0Hjbo7D7f9hnMAzY0CJjYky-2FGHGgHLrljIG6EN-2BTwh2f-2BXid6IYhdpgN7eW4Dx9h6RnnmfnTX56iVX-2BZX-2BDEWnffKuFlnpedWSURcmzxAQMRbTmQ-2BPWnDEJ59Ki2zUIhWLGQsI8bvwZYGNwYnRrW2bO9QaAs6G-2B20KY8kzYXXnJDr8y5h-2BStokSxoOXa4RvjWSE0avMHtXIaRHrEhVEzdMxIoG6WmPm3gp8biOvJ63f-2FjG-2Fkf-2BKudew-3D-3D> aggregate
>>> numbers of national security requests, including FISA disclosures—in terms
>>> of both the number we receive and their scope. Google’s numbers would
>>> clearly show that our compliance with these requests falls far short of the
>>> claims being made. Google has nothing to hide. *
>>> The government allowed Google to start reporting the number of national
>>> security letters they received requesting data earlier this year, but
>>> they are still barred from releasing information about Foreign Intelligence
>>> Surveillance Act (FISA) orders. The requests for this data often comes in
>>> the form of secret court orders that not only force these companies to give
>>> data but also make it impossible for them to discuss even the basic
>>> details. That should change.
>>> By allowing these companies to include this information in their
>>> transparency reports, the government will be giving American citizens at
>>> least some of the insight we deserve about how our daily activities like
>>> emails and Google searches are being tracked by the government.
>>>          Sign Alec's Petition
>>> <http://email.change.org/wf/click?upn=L4wUyO6b13sjdmUXmXaF3ImVTD6G6GFyhYT-2F9kLEoC-2Bh9CqsdU4ynONTJ6skFJN3qKgIucR6n35B-2BaxwC0Pq2sgPVv3FohPnXvsUCa0EZRDrpfr9ljUq2HUQAQDh8sCgMwSQakv9osVjpZDek7AuphE1KQZRK0xy5A-2BX6mevoff5aP2HMk5Iqj-2FFvHauQSLLoQEtFzQGhRL47PvWc5Kafyql1o480YZIOK5LtBJVFlMy7DXxKWKbVAQdr1RVopTZ_waxN-2FayPhGkz6DM9IZfKtgQuTrpSJsM0Hjbo7D7f9hnMAzY0CJjYky-2FGHGgHLrljIG6EN-2BTwh2f-2BXid6IYhdpgN7eW4Dx9h6RnnmfnTX56iVX-2BZX-2BDEWnffKuFlnpedWvA2wqAyOjgHaVAcL3xTotZlv-2BkqUcNX5OcNB24gz416RXY8VSR2M3PnaNBEq-2BvmWlS6v-2FzlVwhuxA1eWX-2BVk3Ymk8Yr-2FkYwsxme3e-2FYZNIRaM7NKpS4KSf1hK5xvWrQNpkapdw4PcgpHifQRYdXq8g-3D-3D>
>>>               The person (or organization) who started this petition is
>>> not affiliated with Change.org. Change.org did not create this petition
>>> and is not responsible for the petition content.
>>>  This email was sent by Change.org to parabellum7 at yahoo.com. You can edit
>>> your email preferences<http://email.change.org/wf/click?upn=1mmeex-2FjZn-2FwcNsRwSa6VbCe5pNyjM8O3LMH-2BWzopXfmZWty8k6dGa0lVGlbZNS6ECqMC17jrGwvtPFONXuhEA4O5qNCbwOo8l8zNJwGJ-2BoszFbtzqLueJWF-2FmDQHzHmX-2FlAdlYJUmRSHPLRX345hoecsWjTOzba51eUmibT3Xt3EuoEUPJiCg1ZDZ9o7HMM9n7Oa-2F-2BVXEBlE8CW-2F0o8xA-3D-3D_waxN-2FayPhGkz6DM9IZfKtgQuTrpSJsM0Hjbo7D7f9hnMAzY0CJjYky-2FGHGgHLrljIG6EN-2BTwh2f-2BXid6IYhdpgN7eW4Dx9h6RnnmfnTX56iVX-2BZX-2BDEWnffKuFlnpedW9BqLj-2Fh-2B2mfwbtjTiphBkYQ44pvw62Bbv5HvX3YRS15TDdQsWtIGdOyyzllCn95Yjijug4bKvdKtGU-2FFG1PTOM8zZhXpJpP86ALammJM1gzmlsRD2yIbXCmT-2F3r0nWWWknSDjukITt-2BfYEzeBiSeBQ-3D-3D>or
>>> unsubscribe<http://email.change.org/wf/click?upn=1mmeex-2FjZn-2FwcNsRwSa6Vcp-2BYwBlgMdP9ElkCjUTJDx5iiKkXHXDQfSkxy5yqlrs1jDaQCtTWEO3ddmEL8IVnCgTbYkVrL0boW7qwkuFfQ6Ws6gaPyIDlxx-2Brygc4137mdSHVKNB7lBB4yw-2BoO7wFt77oF7aDN3lZj4ulQ7irvBUOVYqLV5mecLg88V5OfGcaAao4-2F8iw0N8f0-2Fxt1l6D7-2FrIJ3NpU6tKs-2Ffl-2Bc9W4XcnA7knyoLva81vW4e9V6Q_waxN-2FayPhGkz6DM9IZfKtgQuTrpSJsM0Hjbo7D7f9hnMAzY0CJjYky-2FGHGgHLrljIG6EN-2BTwh2f-2BXid6IYhdpgN7eW4Dx9h6RnnmfnTX56iVX-2BZX-2BDEWnffKuFlnpedW3YGNrtL6q1U2NWK9zmCcHkgIW3jDYNOzHf0CsXu-2BqDvJCZgja1rh7ns3DcbZDXa812Vlk-2F-2FNtUeEXeyw0N0-2BNIB6q4MlUTVWxtYM-2BC9F50rPHFSIilDkqF9LrGyX68vTdPO7GcZZQ-2BEX0ktGX-2B4ORg-3D-3D>from
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