Summer Linux Classes at Mesa Community College

[der.hans]

Am 23. May, 2011 schwätzte Ted Gould so:

> On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 22:25 -0700, Dennis Kibbe wrote:

> I think that this is a problem that the "Linux Desktop" has in general.
> Too many people associate the term "Linux" with servers and think that
> it can only exist there.  That means we'll never win in the consumer
> space.  Perhaps that's why it's not "Android Linux" :-)

I think the problem is that people still associate Linux with hard to
install and use. Android is doing well because it comes pre-installed
with support and it works.

We need companies bigger than ZAReason and System76 to sell computers
with GNU/Linux pre-installed and using good Free Software drivers. We
can pre-install GIMP, Inkscape, Blender, LibreOffice and lots of other
functionality for free. If selling pre-installed on supported hardware we
have the advantage. Maybe that's how tablets will succeed since that's
what they're doing. If so, Android has significant advantage over Ubuntu
right now. That's sad because Android doesn't seem to be much concerned 
about using proprietary software, especially from the repo.

> On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 21:43 -0700, der.hans wrote:

>> While I understand what you're saying, I disagree. Yes, basic GNU/Linux
>> desktop usage should not require use of the command line. Classes,
>> however, should at least give a basic introduction, especially in regards
>> to taking advice from the Internet that involves sudo, su or root :). A
>> class is a great place to demystify the command line for those unfamiliar
>> with it.
>
> While I'll accept other reasons, this one I won't -- lazy tutorial
> writers and blog authors shouldn't be a reason to teach people overly

I didn't mention or intend blogs, howtos, etc. I meant forums, chat rooms
and other social media.

###
somenick> Oh, I know how to fix that, hit <alt>-<f2> and type xterm.
you'll get a new window, type "sudo $somedestructivecommand" and that'll
fix your problem
###

Even worse if they go straight for gksudo.

My experience is that those who wouldn't use the command line also won't
be searching for solutions in order to find pages that recommend using the
command line. Maybe I just know too many anti-technology people.

Any desktop class ( or intro to an operating system class ) for any
operating system should also be teaching people not to just download crap
from anywhere. Again, we have the advantage. The distributions have great
repositories that are mostly secure and have lots of great software.

> complex techniques.  And, effectively, continue a mythology that you can
> only use Linux if you're a techie or able to use the command line well.
> As Linux enthusiasts we need to all work to rid the Internet of these
> instructions.  I tried to convince a couple of folks at Google that they
> shouldn't index anything with the string "sudo" in it; I haven't been
> successful... yet...

Sounds like you started working for Red Hat and have joined the anti-sudo
crowd :).

Having command line based stuff out there is still a good thing. Even
if the vast majority of the population doesn't want to fix
their car/plumbing/electrical/computer/etc that doesn't mean
schematics/directions/etc should be hard to find. Please don't propose
taking resources away from me just because someone else finds them ugly.

I agree with you that general desktop use shouldn't require knowing the
command line the same way I think driving a car shouldn't require knowing
how to check the fuses or change the oil. Just as knowing about the fuses
and the oil and why it's important to maintain them is good it's also good
to know the command line is there and have a basic understanding of it.

Ubuntu has done a good job of removing requirements to use command line (
even though command line tools are usually better ). For the most part
this has been done without borking command line tools, which is equally
important.

>> Happily for you they specifically require GNOME knowledge :).
>
> They'll need to upgrade that to Unity knowledge ;-)

Actually, no. It'll need to stay GNOME and KDE because we're intentionally
somewhat distro neutral. Unity probably just means we should use Kubuntu
and use GNOME on CentOS.

The other college is a Red Hat academy, so they especially don't care
about Unity :).

Personally, Harmony has convinced me to move back to Debian, so I haven't
even investigated what Unity is.

ciao,

der.hans
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