Exploitation?

[Bryan O'Neal]

Truth is all you really need is 1 good admin per few hundred servers. We
are application and system admins doing combo ops and eng work on both the
service and server level and we only have ~ 1 admin for ever 200 to 300
servers.

On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Nathan England <nathan at paysonlinux.org>wrote:

> Maybe they understand exactly that they get what they pay for, and want
> someone like Keith is explaining, which is why they called it a "junior
> admin" job to begin with...
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 1:43 PM, keith smith <klsmith2020 at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> I think that is my point.  They may find someone who has skills but no
>> record.  The new employee spends a year with this company and then leaves
>> because he/she now has a year of documented sys admin experience.
>>
>> Entry level training ground.
>>
>> ------------------------
>> Keith Smith
>>
>> --- On *Wed, 4/27/11, Bryan O'Neal <Bryan.ONeal at TheONealAndAssociates.com
>> >* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Bryan O'Neal <Bryan.ONeal at TheONealAndAssociates.com>
>> Subject: Re: Exploitation?
>> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <plug-discuss at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
>> Date: Wednesday, April 27, 2011, 1:13 PM
>>
>>
>> That is a quality counter argument. The next question is do people
>> understand they get what they pay for...
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 11:20 AM, keith smith <klsmith2020 at yahoo.com<http://mc/compose?to=klsmith2020@yahoo.com>
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>> In the past I would have been upset with such an offering.  What I see now
>> is a pathway.  While none of us like to see a sys admin job for $10 -
>> $12/hr, most folks would not apply.  If this position helps someone move
>> from retail sales, delivering pizza, working at Fry's grocery, ETC.  Then
>> this position has value by providing someone a pathway into what they might
>> really like to be doing.
>>
>> I would imagine whomever takes a position like this will stay just long
>> enough to build a resume that will allow them to move to the next level.
>>
>> ------------------------
>> Keith Smith
>>
>> --- On *Wed, 4/27/11, Bryan O'Neal <Bryan.ONeal at TheONealAndAssociates.com
>> >* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Bryan O'Neal <Bryan.ONeal at TheONealAndAssociates.com>
>>
>> Subject: Re: Exploitation?
>> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <plug-discuss at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us<http://mc/compose?to=plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
>> >
>> Date: Wednesday, April 27, 2011, 8:48 AM
>>
>>
>> Commentary on the Linux job market seems entirely on topic to me. But
>> that, is just one mans opinion.
>> What surprised me is the lack of people countering lisa's argument
>> with hard examples of how the market has not been comoditised to the
>> point of removing any since of humanity from the common offering.
>>
>> On 4/25/11, James Finstrom <jfinstrom at rhinoequipment.com<http://mc/compose?to=jfinstrom@rhinoequipment.com>>
>> wrote:
>> > It already has gone off list someone is abusing their email list. That
>> being
>> > said my original reply was within the bounds of the discussion if we are
>> > taking that approach but the personal attack to my email is
>> > what escalated it.  We will simply agree to disagree but abuse of users
>> off
>> > list is not acceptable PERIOD!
>> >
>> > On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Stephen <cryptworks at gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=cryptworks@gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> ok this really needs to go off list..
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 2:27 PM, James Finstrom <
>> >> jfinstrom at rhinoequipment.com<http://mc/compose?to=jfinstrom@rhinoequipment.com>>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> LOL I am not the one off topic but  I am at fault as everyone knows
>> your
>> >>> 256 shades of bat*** crazy and I made the mistake of pointing it out.
>> I
>> >>> assume you will take your meds and not hurt yourself or anyone else
>> for
>> >>> my
>> >>> mistake....
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 2:22 PM, Lisa Kachold
>> >>> <lisakachold at obnosis.com<http://mc/compose?to=lisakachold@obnosis.com>
>> >wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> James,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I accept your apology for the PLUG.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Have a better day.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 1:51 PM, James Finstrom <
>> >>>> jfinstrom at rhinoequipment.com<http://mc/compose?to=jfinstrom@rhinoequipment.com>>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> I am sure It would have been acceptable as a straight relay of the
>> job.
>> >>>>> What was off topic was the personal commentary to the posters
>> >>>>> intentions and
>> >>>>> motivations ie: the subject of this email
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Lisa Kachold
>> >>>>> <lisakachold at obnosis.com<http://mc/compose?to=lisakachold@obnosis.com>
>> >wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 8:53 AM, keith smith
>> >>>>>> <klsmith2020 at yahoo.com<http://mc/compose?to=klsmith2020@yahoo.com>
>> >wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I don't think this is a " Jr cabling/desktop monkey" job.  The job
>> >>>>>>> post says "...This position is 90% remote...".
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I think this is a start up and the owner has everyone work out of
>> >>>>>>> their home to keep the cost down and they meet at his house.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> About 12 years ago I worked for a consulting company.  I was W2
>> and
>> >>>>>>> worked from home.  He provided my computer, pay, limited benefits,
>> >>>>>>> and he
>> >>>>>>> worked out of his home.  By doing business this way he was able to
>> >>>>>>> keep the
>> >>>>>>> cost of doing business to a minimum.  I believe he started on a
>> shoe
>> >>>>>>> string
>> >>>>>>> and just stayed there.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I believe this is an opportunity for someone to learn, grow, and
>> get
>> >>>>>>> some resume material.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> ------------------------
>> >>>>>>> Keith Smith
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> --- On *Mon, 4/25/11, Kevin Fries <kfries6 at gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=kfries6@gmail.com>>*
>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> From: Kevin Fries <kfries6 at gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=kfries6@gmail.com>
>> >
>> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Exploitation?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <
>> >>>>>>> plug-discuss at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us<http://mc/compose?to=plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
>> >
>> >>>>>>> Date: Monday, April 25, 2011, 7:31 AM
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I am not sure I would go directly to exploitation.  Though I would
>> >>>>>>> say
>> >>>>>>> they are trying to take advantage slightly.  All the requirements
>> are
>> >>>>>>> 1-3
>> >>>>>>> years.  I would assume there is already in place a full admin, so
>> >>>>>>> this
>> >>>>>>> person would likely be a Jr cabling/desktop monkey.  Here in
>> Denver
>> >>>>>>> that job
>> >>>>>>> would go for 40-45k a year and our tech job market is much
>> stronger
>> >>>>>>> than
>> >>>>>>> yours.  I lost my job the last day of September last year and
>> started
>> >>>>>>> my job
>> >>>>>>> search Oct 1... started a new job Nov 15th, and I was not the
>> first
>> >>>>>>> to find
>> >>>>>>> one... but that is Denver.  Phoenix is a much tougher nut.  So
>> while
>> >>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>> rates are low, and probably not very realistic, I think
>> exploitation
>> >>>>>>> is a
>> >>>>>>> bit strong.  I bet they find some nice kid 20-22 years old in the
>> >>>>>>> $15-$18
>> >>>>>>> range.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Kevin
>> >>>>>>> On Apr 25, 2011 7:54 AM, "Lisa Kachold"
>> >>>>>>> <lisakachold at obnosis.com<http://mc/compose?to=lisakachold@obnosis.com>
>> <http://mc/compose?to=lisakachold@obnosis.com>>
>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>> > Anyone seen this:
>> >>>>>>> http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/sad/2341174027.html
>> >>>>>>> >
>> >>>>>>> > --excerpt--
>> >>>>>>> >
>> >>>>>>> > COMPANY is now hiring a Linux / Windows Systems Admin. This is a
>> >>>>>>> > Jr.
>> >>>>>>> Admin
>> >>>>>>> > role. We are looking for a energetic person who has a basic
>> >>>>>>> background in
>> >>>>>>> > administration. This position is 90% remote but you must reside
>> in
>> >>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>> > Phoenix area due to weekly meetings. Please see below for skill
>> >>>>>>> > set.
>> >>>>>>> Please
>> >>>>>>> > do not apply if you are a seasoned admin this is a Jr.
>> positions.
>> >>>>>>> Pay rate
>> >>>>>>> > is $10 - $12.50 an hour.
>> >>>>>>> >
>> >>>>>>> > Windows Administration - 1 to 3 years
>> >>>>>>> > Linux Administration - 1 to 3 years
>> >>>>>>> > Networking - 1 to 3 years
>> >>>>>>> > UNIX - is a plus
>> >>>>>>> > Programing - is a plus
>> >>>>>>> >
>> >>>>>>> >
>> >>>>>>> > * Location: Phoenix Area
>> >>>>>>> > * Compensation: $10 - $12.50
>> >>>>>>> >
>> >>>>>>> > CRITICAL THOUGHT:
>> >>>>>>> >
>> >>>>>>> > 1) How can you require all the same responsibilities in a
>> so-called
>> >>>>>>> Junior
>> >>>>>>> > Systems Admin of a regular admin as a rationalization to only
>> pay
>> >>>>>>> them
>> >>>>>>> > $12-15 an hour?
>> >>>>>>> > 2) This company is clearly not a .ORG - seems they have
>> >>>>>>> mis-registered their
>> >>>>>>> > domain name?
>> >>>>>>> > 3) Don't even sec scan their website...
>> >>>>>>> >
>> >>>>>>> > But hey, if you want to work from home, this might be a good
>> gig,
>> >>>>>>> you can
>> >>>>>>> > work 15 minutes on the hour!
>> >>>>>>> >
>> >>>>>>> > --
>> >>>>>>> > (503) 754-4452 iPhone
>> >>>>>>> > (623) 239-3392 Skype
>> >>>>>>> > (623) 688-3392 Google Voice
>> >>>>>>> >
>> >>>>>>> > http://www.it-clowns.com
>> >>>>>>> >
>> >>>>>>> > "It took me many years but I have gained access to the root
>> account
>> >>>>>>> and have
>> >>>>>>> > removed the user God." -Saros
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Yes, I think this could be a good gig.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> We don't have a job posts area anymore or I would have laid her
>> there.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> --
>> >>>>>> (503) 754-4452 iPhone
>> >>>>>> (623) 239-3392 Skype
>> >>>>>> (623) 688-3392 Google Voice
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>  http://www.it-clowns.com
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> "It took me many years but I have gained access to the root account
>> >>>>>> and
>> >>>>>> have removed the user God."   -Saros
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
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>> >>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
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>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> James Finstrom
>> >>>>> Rhino Equipment Corp.
>> >>>>> http://rhinoequipment.com
>> >>>>> Phone: 1-877-RHINO-T1
>> >>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/rhinoequipment
>> >>>>> Facebook: http://facebook.com/RhinoEquipment
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
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>> >>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
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>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> (503) 754-4452 iPhone
>> >>>> (623) 239-3392 Skype
>> >>>> (623) 688-3392 Google Voice
>> >>>>
>> >>>>  http://www.it-clowns.com
>> >>>>
>> >>>> "It took me many years but I have gained access to the root account
>> and
>> >>>> have removed the user God."   -Saros
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------
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>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------
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>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
>> >> rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
>> >>
>> >> Stephen
>> >>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------
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>> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > James Finstrom
>> > Rhino Equipment Corp.
>> > http://rhinoequipment.com
>> > Phone: 1-877-RHINO-T1
>> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/rhinoequipment
>> > Facebook: http://facebook.com/RhinoEquipment
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Sent from my mobile device
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>>
>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Nathan England
> I believe in the Constitution and the 4th Amendment. I am innocent and have
> nothing to hide, but NO agent of the state crosses my threshhold without a
> valid warrant signed by a judge and properly submitted. If we fail to
> exercise our rights, we lose them.
>
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