Sat Feb 20 20:01:10 MST 2010

I'm old school and would suggest learning plain old C.  Then you can branch out to other languages.

------------------------
Keith Smith

--- On Sat, 2/20/10, Joshua Zeidner <jjzeidner at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Joshua Zeidner <jjzeidner at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re:
> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <plug-discuss at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
> Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 7:34 PM
> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 7:27 PM,
> Michael Havens <bmike1 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > website development seems like the only thing I would
> want to do so Ruby it
> > is!
> 
> 
>    and that is the typical story with Ruby
> developers...  ;)
> 
>   -jmz
> 
> 
> > Unfortunately, it isn't on my Ubuntuu install. When 
> I tried to start it
> > it told me to apt-get it. No internet connection.
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 7:12 PM, Joseph Sinclair
> <plug-discussion at stcaz.net>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Let's not devolve into a favorite language war.
>  There are situations
> >> where Python is a great language choice, and
> situations where it's terrible.
> >> Every language choice comes down to what you want
> to accomplish.
> >>  Some languages are good for rapid development of
> websites (Ruby, PHP,
> >> etc...).
> >>  Some languages are good for systems management
> scripts (Python, Perl,
> >> etc...).
> >>  Some languages are good for developing large web
> systems intended to be
> >> maintained for years (Java, others).
> >>  Some languages are good for developing packaged
> COTS software (C++, Java,
> >> etc...).
> >>  Some languages are good for system software and
> embedded devices (C, C++,
> >> etc...).
> >>  Many languages are most useful in very specific
> niches (Forth, Lisp, ADA,
> >> XSLT, LOLCode, Objective-C, etc...)
> >>
> >> Most languages have multiple areas where they work
> well, and multiple
> >> areas where they're not so good.
> >> What exactly you want to accomplish in your
> software development should
> >> drive the language choice, although it rarely
> does.
> >>
> >> No one particular language is the best choice for
> learning how to write
> >> software; each type of software development will
> drive a different choice of
> >> the best "first" language to learn.
> >>
> >> Mike, you need to specify your goal more precisely
> in order for the
> >> community here to give you a useful recommendation
> that will help you best
> >> accomplish that goal.
> >>
> >> ==Joseph++
> >>
> >> Kevin Fries wrote:
> >> > Wow, now I know why it is so hard to hire
> people that are competent!
> >> >  Python is fun, not right, but fun... Thats
> your argument?  If you want to
> >> > know why we refuse to hire Python programmers
> at our company, I can give you
> >> > real facts on why you should not use that
> language as a place to learn...
> >> > Not opinions.
> >> >
> >> > Kevin
> >> >
> >> > Sent from my Nokia phone
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: Joshua Zeidner
> >> > Sent:  02/20/2010 4:17:23 PM
> >> > Subject:  Re:
> >> >
> >> > On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Joshua
> Zeidner <jjzeidner at gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>  Seems like we have a lot of opinions
> here.  Here is a paper from ACM
> >> >> on the use of Python in for teaching
> programming.
> >> >>
> >> >>    http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=114017
> >> >
> >> >   sorry wrong link:
> >> >  http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1140123.1140177
> >> >
> >> >        -jmz
> >> >
> >> >>  -jmz
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Austin
> William Wright
> >> >> <diamondmagic at users.sourceforge.net>
> wrote:
> >> >>> Alan Dayley wrote:
> >> >>>> Python.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>> Absolutely NOT PYTHON. It breaks the
> first two rules of programming,
> >> >>> the
> >> >>> assignment operator (=) assigns
> values to a variable, and always
> >> >>> ignore
> >> >>> whitespace. Well my first two rules,
> at least. Plus it sucks at
> >> >>> consistent use of object-oriented
> programming.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> If you *really* need a
> general-purpose programming language, look at
> >> >>> Ruby, it's slightly more well
> behaved. Slightly. I would recommend
> >> >>> Javascript, it's a major programming
> language, and you can run it in
> >> >>> your web browser with literally
> nothing to install. Plus Javascript is
> >> >>> closely related to XML and HTML,
> while not programming languages, are
> >> >>> markup languages (a way of storing
> data) that is becoming very
> >> >>> important
> >> >>> to know for many things. Though
> designed for the web, many of these
> >> >>> things are finding themselves become
> part of everyday computing,
> >> >>> especially XML. For these things, http://www.w3schools.com/ is
> >> >>> popular.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Any scripting language might be a
> good start at learning about
> >> >>> if/then/else logic, but none of these
> languages are going to teach how
> >> >>> computers really *process* or *store*
> information on the inside (how
> >> >>> the
> >> >>> CPU executes the program or how
> variables are stored in memory), or
> >> >>> for
> >> >>> that matter write an actual
> interactive computer program, you will
> >> >>> need
> >> >>> a real language like C or C++. After
> learning something like
> >> >>> Javascript
> >> >>> you will find C surprisingly limited
> in functionality if you try and
> >> >>> do
> >> >>> things the same way, especially
> variable-length variables like strings
> >> >>> and arrays. Keep that fact in the
> back of your head for when, if, you
> >> >>> attempt C/C++.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Whatever you do, Google "<x>
> tutorial" should bring up something good.
> >> >>> In the way of books, however, you
> can't miss ones from O'Reilly (
> >> >>> http://oreilly.com/ ), they are jade/teal
> and have a random animal on
> >> >>> the cover.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Austin Wright.
> >> >>>
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> change your mail settings:
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> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> http://home.joshuazeidner.com/
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > :-)~MIKE~(-:
> >
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://home.joshuazeidner.com/
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