OT: Plug Digest, Vol 62, Issue 31 - the unfixable problem.

[keith smith]

Greed is not all about Money. For example, having an extramarital affair is about greed. 

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Keith Smith

--- On Mon, 8/30/10, Eric Cope <eric.cope at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Eric Cope <eric.cope at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Plug Digest, Vol 62, Issue 31 - the unfixable problem.
To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <plug-discuss at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
Date: Monday, August 30, 2010, 12:56 PM

Would you limit greed to the pursuit of money, or would you consider the pursuit of other goals, not necessarily wealth based "greed"? Who defines excessive? 

Eric

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 12:48 PM,  <joe at actionline.com> wrote:




Responses interspersed below:



> Its my current view that we all have desires that stem from greed



I don't think this is a correct observation.



Surely it is not a true statement that "we ... *all* ... have desires

that stem from greed"



There are enormous numbers of people who are assuredly *not* driven

by greed or who are even in the slightest tainted by greed.  Of course

many are consumed by greed; but many people, many professionals, and

even many profit-motivated businesses are assuredly *not* driven or

even in the smallest way motivated by greed.



Non-profit organizations are one example.



Medical "missionaries" and rescuers of many kinds to are quick to dash to

places like Katrina ravaged New Orleans, Haiti, Rwanda, and countless

other places are obviously not motivated by greed.



One excellent example (close to our hearts ;) is the whole GNU-Linux-FOSS

movement. Most individuals who give enormous amounts of time and effort

trying to continually improve everything about "G-L-F" are obviously not

motivated primarily by greed.



There are probably even a few (no doubt a pretty small percentage -

perhaps a tenth or hundredth of a percent ;) of lawyers who are not

motivated mainly by greed, but rather by a genuine desire to help people

in need.



On the other hand, it seems ever-more-increasingly clear that most of the

so-called "medical" profession and related hospital industry, like the

so-called legal (injustice) system, are motivated mainly by greed.



> the desire to offer our services for as high a price as possible

> AND to desire others' services for as low a prices as possible.



In the case of businesses and business services, there are many examples

in which owners and managers may be profit-motivated (not non-profits),

but who are sincerely endeavoring to deliver lower prices and lower costs

... and not merely driven by competitive pressures.  Rather, many are the

makers of competitive pressures when they do not necessarily need to.



Obviously, the petroleum industry is not one of those.



However (while some may start throwing rotten vegetables at me), Walmart

is an example of a business that is built on continuously working to

deliver the lowest possible prices.  Costco is another example where

pressing for the highest possible price that they can get away with is not

their motive. Interesting, too, that the CEO of Costco takes such a

relatively small salary.  But I digress.



> We can't wish these results, but must participate in the market

> to get as close to these desires as willing.



It's important to understand that the definition of greed necessarily

begins with the word "excessive" ... excessive consumption and/or

excessive desire for wealth, etc.



And that definition of greed is played out in the building of grandiose

hospital and medical facilities.  Recently we saw in the news about a huge

donation of many millions of dollars given to the Mayo clinic.  What a

wonderful action, and not one to be denigrated in any way ... however,

just think of how many small, modest clinics could have been built to

provide low-cost health-care for so many in desperate need rather than

building yet another grandiose edifice to be equipped with the most costly

and extravagant futuristic equipment where only the rich and famous can

afford to seek treatment.



> Coercion is the use of force (noun) to force (verb) you to participate in

> a market you are unwilling to participate freely, either through paying

> higher prices that you would normally, or through receiving a lower price

> for our own service.



While I certainly agree with this observation, it addresses something

different than the greed that seems to be what is driving the medical and

hospital industry.



> The former requires mutual benefit for a transaction to take place. The

> latter does not, in fact, it rarely benefits more than one party involved.



I'm just not sure how to connect this last statement with the issue of

greed as (what I believe to be) the driving force for the outrageous costs

for so-called "health care" in this country.  I don't see how coercion is

driving up the costs, more-so than simply sheer greed.







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