OT: Re: ot: Fourth Amendment... gone forever?

[Craig White]

On Wed, 2008-02-13 at 18:04 -0700, Eric "Shubes" wrote:
> Jason Hayes wrote:
> > On Tuesday 12 February 2008 7:14:33 pm Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote:
> >> +1.  For Michale Moore, you could tell he was holding back to try
> >> being "fair and balanced".  Health care in the USA is a joke compared
> >> to the UK.  You don't believe it?  Watch the movie and ask any of your
> >> friends who have had care in both places...
> > 
> > Or you can ask me. I endured the Canadian health care system for over 30 
> > years. To clear things up, it's not the panacea you appear to think it is. 
> > The US health care system -- expensive as it may be -- is light years ahead 
> > of the Canadian and British systems.
> > 
> > A few quick examples from my own life experience.
> <snip>
> > 
> > Regarding your first assertion, Michael Moore doesn't have the first clue what 
> > life is like under socialized health care and you don't see him traveling to 
> > Cuba for his check ups and surgery, do you?
> > 
> > The simple truth is that people are dying on wait lists in Canada, Great 
> > Britain, and France. Worse, they're made to wait like that after having paid 
> > 50%+ taxes for their "free" health care.
> > 
> > Don't fall for it. The grass is not greener on the other side of that fence.
> > 
> 
> I agree with you guys. Socialism simply does not work, regardless of how
> much we might want it to.
> http://www.mises.org/books/socialism/contents.aspx
> When will we learn?
> 
> P.S. I wonder how this topic deviated?
----
topic deviated because I mentioned the simple question Michael Moore
asked in the movie because it was so pertinent... "Who are we?"

I guess I expected that people would not conflate the terminology of
socialized medicine with the concepts of a socialist economic model but
perhaps I was too optimistic. It is of course easy enough to accept
other similar socialized models such as water and trash services, police
and fire services, libraries, schools, etc...just not health care.

just today, the story from the Associated Press...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23151832/

LOS ANGELES - Blue Cross of California quickly halted its practice of
asking doctors to report conditions it could use to cancel new patients'
medical coverage after a widespread wave of criticism.

The move announced Tuesday by the state's largest for-profit health
insurer came after a report on the practice in the Los Angeles Times
prompted an outcry from doctors, patients, the governor and even
presidential candidates.

Blue Cross said it would stop sending letters that asked doctors to
immediately report "any condition not listed on the application that is
discovered to be pre-existing."

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger called the letter "outrageous" and described
the practice as asking doctors to "rat out the patients."

Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton said the
Blue Cross effort was another "example of how insurance companies spend
tens of billions of dollars a year figuring out how to avoid covering
people with health insurance."

Blue Cross had for years been sending physicians copies of health
insurance applications filled out by new patients, along with a letter
telling the doctors that the company has a right to drop members who
fail to disclose "material medical history," including a pre-existing
pregnancy.

Blue Cross is one of several California insurers that have been
criticized for issuing policies without checking applications and then
canceling coverage after patients run up major medical costs. The
practice of canceling coverage is under scrutiny by state regulators,
lawmakers and the courts.

"This letter was part of Blue Cross' pattern of unfairly canceling
policies when people need coverage most," said Richard Frankenstein,
president of the California Medical Association. "We're relieved that
Blue Cross is ending this particular tactic but continue to have serious
concerns about this company's practices."

WellPoint Inc., the Indianapolis-based company that operates Blue Cross
of California, said it was sending out the letters in an effort to keep
costs at a minimum and guard against fraud.

Craig