OT - Have you seen this ad?
Jason Spatafore
jasons at spatafore.net
Fri Aug 29 17:21:37 MST 2008
Actually Eric, when you go from a van that got 22 MPG and get yourself into a small car that consistently gets above 32 MPG (and if you look at the spreadsheet, more often than not > 36MPG), then you have done your part.
Just because you've seen "better" doesn't mean everybody can afford to go "better". However, you show me an electric car for the price of my Corolla and I would trade in immediately.
I drive mostly highway...I was looking at a Prius. However, when the Prius gets close to what I get in my Corolla on the highway, but costs 8k more, I see the Corolla paying off much quicker *and* doing my part. (Corolla was 16k, Prius was 22k)
For my pocketbook, the true measurement is dollars/mile. I work 36 miles from home. There is no way in hell I am going to bike or take a bus. That would be a 2 hour journey by bus, 4 hour journey by bike. When I look at the amount I get paid an hour, I am not going to spend $240.00/day to try and save a few carbon atoms from hitting the air. (Although I am part of convincing my work to go to 4 day workweeks.)
As for "Why should the leaders fix the problem?" remark....the simple fact is that we elect them. They do as we say. If we tell them to fix the problem, then there is no further discussion. Part of being a voter is that I do not have to justify why I want them to do something. They are my elected official...I am their boss. Do as I say or I replace you.
Now, for solar....20k investment after tax write-offs and APS credits (53k for whole unit, 20k from APS, around 10k from feds.) Anyway, 20k after installation. Now, a 20k loan for 20 years is around what, $200.00 a month with high interest?
1. Solar increases the value of your home by approximately 5k per kwH that you get the unit. (40k in my case).
2. You no longer pay APS...who happens to be raising prices again because they didn't utilize solar like they should have. Anyway, I pay them 251.00/month...probably $300.00/month next year if I don't go solar.
So, I will pay the monthly service fee from APS (something like $40.00 for staying on the grid) and will pay the loan at 200/month. The price would be the same...except I won't be as effected by fossil fuel obsolescence. Also, when you think about solar...when do you produce the most electricity? Yep, during the times that you *use* the most electricity on air conditioning.
In Arizona, solar makes sense and it does pay off not just for the cost but for the value it adds to the home. Arizona should have embraced solar 10 years ago...and our elected officials should have been pushing it.
I actually reamed my work a bit because we just built a new building and didn't install solar panels. If we would have installed solar panels and placed the air conditioners under the solar panels, the incoming air would have been slightly colder *and* we could have offset our monthly bills which will always rise. The pay off is in more like 10 years than 20. And that's not even taking the environmental benefits into account.
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Cope
To: Jason Spatafore ; Main PLUG discussion list
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 8:05 AM
Subject: Re: OT - Have you seen this ad?
I wouldn't be too excited about 32 mpg (I saw the 37s and 38s, thats better). Over 40 and thats good... (side note, have you safely aired up your tires to 40-45psi, that will get you 1-3 more mpg). The true metric is not $/mile, but $/day.
$/gallon * gallons/mile * miles/day = $/day. If you spend $.10/mile but commute to LA from Phoenix, its still wasteful... but if you spend $1.5/day on fuel, thats making a difference. because if its only $1.50 a day, then you could probably bike to work...
let me know what your solar experiences are. I found they take 20+ years to pay for themselves with warranties under 20 years. Are you familiar with the maintenance of solar?
And you didn't answer my second question. If we as a population are willing to do it ourselves (which is always better), why do we require our leaders to bully us into doing it ourselves?
keep up the good fight!
On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 7:19 PM, Jason Spatafore <jasons at spatafore.net> wrote:
I bought a car that gets 32+ MPG constantly.
See attached spreadsheet. :)
Getting ready to have solar added to my house. 8.6kwH unit so I generate a surplus.
Notice how I measure performance on $/mile. That's what really matters. I was ticked when it hit .10/mile. I want to see $.05/mile.
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Cope
To: huertanix at gmail.com ; Main PLUG discussion list
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: OT - Have you seen this ad?
Sorry to start the flame war...
Stephen, what are you doing to stop the "addiction"?
Why do we need our "leaders" to do it for us?
<remaining on soap box for response>
Eric
On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 4:23 PM, <huertanix at gmail.com> wrote:
Link is relevant to my interests but please add an "OT" to the subject line next time. :)
Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Wiebelhaus <shackman97 at yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:54:31
To: <plug-discuss at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
Subject: Have you seen this ad?
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