PLUG netiquette (was trolls flamefest)
Joshua Zeidner
jjzeidner at gmail.com
Wed Aug 29 17:31:45 MST 2007
Hey Tuna,
If you guys want a community, you've got to support conflict
resolution. Not everybody sees things the same way, if they did, there
wouldn't be any reason to be typing stuff into my computer. I do somewhat
miss the days when listservs were really helpful places to do business,
etc. I know that part of the problem is that they have been recognized as a
business resource and as such are regularly exploited.
What I've learned is you can't take the people out of the equation-
there is no perfect 'social technology', aside from the ones we've known all
along (ie democracy, etc.). These problems with search engines are a
perfect example, why are we modifying our behavior because of *Google's
deficiency*? Were going to accept information thats processed according to
an algorithm we don't even have access to?
I hope that no one here questions my background and interest in Linux
and OSS. People are coming from all sorts of perspectives here- I do read
most of the posts and respond to a small percentage.
-jmz
On 8/29/07, Tuna <tuna at supertunaman.com> wrote:
>
> Why must we flame? Where is the love? The community?
>
> Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 8/29/07, *Alan Dayley* <alandd at consultpros.com
> > <mailto:alandd at consultpros.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > On 8/29/07, *keith smith* <klsmith2020 at yahoo.com
> > <mailto:klsmith2020 at yahoo.com>
> > > <mailto:klsmith2020 at yahoo.com <mailto:klsmith2020 at yahoo.com> >>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Add PLUG reserves the right to suspend or remove any account
> > not in
> > > compliance.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > And for my reference, WHO is PLUG?
> >
> > Straight to the point. WE are PLUG.
> >
> > There is a Steering Committee with a chair person but, they direct
> the
> > group in a "benevolent dictator" style, sort of... The committee
> does
> > makes sure stuff happens but has no real force of control. There
> > are no
> > by-laws or hard rules for the committee to lean on or point
> at. PLUG
> > members follow or don't or grumble or yell as they see fit.
> >
> > So, your point is taken. If anyone is reserving the right to ban
> > someone, who has that right and what are the criteria? I don't know
> > the
> > answer to that question.
> >
> >
> >
> > Honestly, I've been through this with one group already here in
> > Phoenix. Usually if something happens someone doesn't like, they evoke
> > the hidden and mysterious powers of moderation. Behind this somewhat
> > ridiculous fig-leaf is some callow sheepish dude who has the password to
> > the listserv. Very funny stuff in my view.
> >
> > I can say this: without clear leadership, there will be no clear
> > purpose. If the person who recently offered up his grandfatherly
> > opinion of the whole thing feels he is in the position of leadership
> > here, he should make that abundantly clear. Not because I am
> > challenging that leadership, I would just like to know who is running
> > the show if anyone.
> >
> > I am in touch with Jason and I want to make it clear that it was not
> > my intention to smear him. I do not make any claims against his
> > character. He has made job postings on here after our work engagement
> > and I made no attempt to interfere with that. I asked for a simple
> > thing, and my intention here was to help clear up some confusion. I
> > will make a sincere attempt to reconcile our disputes.
> >
> > In a general, I have recently moved out of Phoenix, primarily because
> > I found the work environment here quite lacking. I could tell you quite
> > a number of stories of my experiences around here[1], but there is a
> > sufficient trail of listserv activity to point to some of my
> > experiences. I think that Phoenix is currently facing some serious
> > challenges as a city... and there are going to be inevitable changes
> > whether they are welcomed by old-timers or not. I am quite sure that
> > recent activity in financial markets has hit a number of people on this
> > list directly.
> >
> > To address Joseph S.'s comments, for a list or a business venue to
> > function correctly, you have to support buyers AND sellers, employers
> > AND employees. I know that a number of regular contributors are of the
> > hobbyist temperament, and see these kinds of points to be irrelevant and
> > annoying. Banning feedback on job ads may seem like a great way to
> > attract employers, because they feel safer in making whatever claims
> > they please. The problem is, that the actual value of the ads degrade,
> > and developers start to take a somewhat non-committal attitude towards
> > working with these parties[3]. What phoenix currently needs is some
> > kind of reputable venue for IT contracting, and I've voiced these
> > concerns before[2]. Silicon Valley (where I currently reside) is
> > literally bulging at the seams with out-of-control cost scales and
> > somewhat of a vacuum of lucrative ideas. There are people here who make
> > $300K a year designing applications to scrape your address book from
> > your gmail account. Phoenix /does/ have potential in that sense, but it
> > lacks the legal and commercial infrastructure to support the kind of
> > commercial activity found in Silicon Valley. This infrastructure was
> > built by folks not unlike yourselves, who just have a basic fascination
> > with technology and its possibilities and decided make the government
> > work for them instead of against them.
> >
> > Alan, I appreciate your attitude here- I think you are looking out
> > for whats best for all the participants here. thanks. jmz
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [1] there is one person on this list that I responded to a job ad, and
> > his 'CTO' refused to give me his last name! this person later was
> > recommended by someone else on this list!
> >
> > [2] there are key deficiencies in AZ law as compared to that of CA law.
> > some of the more important aspects are employment law and NCAs.
> >
> > [3] 'no flakes' is perhaps the most common request in web development
> > job postings.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Better yet, I don't want to need to know the answer to that
> question.
> >
> > In the history of PLUG that I know, no one has ever been
> banned. Ever.
> > I'd much rather continue as it has all these years. Self policing
> > works and this group is very good at it.
> >
> > I, for one, would not want the power to ban anyone.
> >
> > Alan
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> > <mailto:PLUG-discuss at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > .0000. communication.
> > .0001. development.
> > .0010. strategy.
> > .0100. appeal.
> >
> > JOSHUA M. ZEIDNER
> > IT Consultant
> >
> > ( 602 ) 490 8006
> > jjzeidner at gmail.com <mailto:jjzeidner at gmail.com>
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
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>
--
.0000. communication.
.0001. development.
.0010. strategy.
.0100. appeal.
JOSHUA M. ZEIDNER
IT Consultant
( 602 ) 490 8006
jjzeidner at gmail.com
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