Red Hat Desktop Integration

[Derek Neighbors]

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> 	I think you and I agree on this point.  I would not call a standard=20
> "something everyone uses".  That's popularity or prevalence.  A standard =
is=20
> an agreed upon measurement or procedure.  Therefore Closed standard is an=
=20
> oxymoron and .doc is a prevalent format made that way from a proven monop=
oly.

You are correct we probably agree then, though I call these things
'de-facto' standards.  They are standards, just not ones people
willingly agreed too, but rather are forced to agree to in order to
play.

> 	Windows does work right after you install it.  Microsoft takes a "{inser=
t=20
> hater company} tech support lackey" approach to why windows doesn't work =
2=20
> weeks after you have it installed. =20

I dont know if I consider that working right, but lets agree to say for
the most part Windows is easy to learn hard to use (be productive with)
and the *nixes are hard to learn easy to use (be productive with).

> the non-tech still holds.  Your anecdote about a Nero Rom burner issue co=
uld=20
> very well apply to me and trying to get my network card to work under Red=
hat=20
> 7.3 (Constant locking of the machine that doesn't happen with the same=20
> configuration of the system under 2000 Pro).  If I call Netgear, I am sur=
e I=20

I guess my point was when people whine about GNU\Linux not being a snap
to install something, Im saying windows isnt exactly plug and play
either.  Many folks complain about the install, but honestly how many
windows users 'install' windows?  Not many, most get it from an OEM.

> will be told to install Microsoft because that is their officially suppor=
ted=20
> software and my problem won't happen.  Linux is a superior OS who is hamp=
ered=20
> in joining the market by the market being closed due to monopoly.  Vendor=
s=20
> won't deal with linux, support from hardware manufacturers is rare in som=
e=20
> cases and most of what's going on is morally wrong (assuming capitalism i=
s=20
> moral, leave that for another discussion) or illegal by US law. =20

Of course the support difference is GNU/Linux has a community that
supports it, instead of a corporate entity per say.

> 	That must come to an end.  However, I am of the opinion that Linux could=
 rule=20
> tomorrow if it had a charismatic and popular leader, company, or figurehe=
ad. =20
> Any leader that currently exists out there can be dismissed by your local=
=20
> "non-techie" as a) a geek and who cares about geek stuff b) a zealot and =
we=20
> all should hate zealots or c) an anti-microsoft pundit (or worse 733t hax=
0r)=20
> with nothing better to do than hate M$ and spell with numbers.

I agree we need some 'different' leaders, but the problem are the ones
that capable of evangelizing to the masses dont get the 'freedom' aspect
of it and thus are more damaging than helpful.

> 	The third option is the easiest to overcome by each of us knowing exactl=
y=20
> what is good and bad about Microsoft and explaining carefully those point=
s=20
> that would convince people to change over.  Not by telling them we hate I=
E=20
> because they killed Netscape (my mom doesn't care) or that "The M$ tax is=
=20
> illegal".  The "Microsoft tax" isn't a tax to people who believe that Win=
dows=20
> is as integral as the motherboard or the chip.   Its a question of flys w=
ith=20
> honey or vinegar.  Pissing on Microsoft is pissing vinegar.  Tellling fol=
ks=20
> you haven't rebooted in 6 months or that you converted your machine at wo=
rk=20
> and no one in the office can tell but you is the honey they need to hear.=
 =20
> PLUG (I feel, which is why I attend meetings) is a honey pot of continuin=
g to=20
> do right =3D)

Yes I agree with this wholly.  Also, Mickeysoft isnt the only vendor out
there doing things that are bad so to lump all the evils on them is
unfair, even if perhaps they are the most visible target.

> 	Ximian as a company is pro-open source, but see a way to make money in a=
=20

Actually I believe when they 'chartered' themselves they agreed to not
write any non-free software, so they basically shifted themselves
massively from original missions to the community.  This is of course
their perogative, BUT it makes it very hard to trust them and certainly
is disappointing.

> capitalist economy by supporting the current "highly prevalent" corporate=
=20
> mail protocol.  From where I sit, the price of Ximian Connector will be p=
aid=20
> by CEOs who deploy MS Exchange in the office.  It will be requested by th=
ose=20
> grass-roots workers who switch their company boxes to Linux and still nee=
d to=20
> support Exchange.  Ximian gets Corporate money.  I can't fathom someone=20
> setting up and exchange server in their home with Linux boxes and buying=20
> Ximian Connector to have things happen.=20

Its a deeper issue than this.  Because someone will pay or because you
need a 'quick buck' are not reasons to write non free software when you
profess to be a free software company.  This issue is VERY deep and some
day outside email I would be glad to discuss it and its ramifications.

> network.  I NEED samba.  If I had a problem with samba, someone telling m=
e to=20
> switch to NFS doesn't help me and it doesn't help the community.  When=20
> someone has a problem, they would like to get it fixed, not re-install th=
eir=20
> OS.  Someday they will have a problem so big that reinstalling is their o=
nly=20
> optiion.  And if they know Linux is gratis/libre/better, then they are=20
> probably going to switch if they think they can get good support from a g=
rass=20
> roots community.

Yes there are some pricks out there.  I think sometimes things are
misconveyed as well.  Often times I tell people to switch to Debian.  I
realize more often than not this is an unreal request, but if someone is
coming to me for support, I am trying to convey if you were using the
same thing (Debian) you would get much better support. :)

> 	You made two statements, the first of which I just deleted, about the ru=
les=20
> of the game "being unfair and run by liars and cheats"  The next statemen=
t=20
> that I left in is that MS is the strongest soldier in the army.  You're r=
ight=20
> on both counts, but it leads to a bigger truth is this: If MS is an army,=
=20
> then we need to be one too.  Because this is a war.  There is no "cheatin=
g,=20
> lying, being unfair" in war.  It simply is horrible.  Now calling this a =
war=20
> (from the first world I am sure I look like an incredible hypocrite sayin=
g=20
> that not being able to run my favorite software on a $2000 machine in fro=
nt=20
> of me is horrible or akin to war) might be over reacting, but its getting=
=20
> there.  And if we remember that we need every soldier we can get, then we=
 are=20
> doing good for our cause.

I think it is a war in relative terms not literal blood bath terms.=20
When you look at the economy in general it is a rather large and
important war.  Look at what a .com meltdown has done to this economy.=20
The tech sector is one of the biggest economic factors to date.

> 	I'd actually love to meet you in person Derek, do you attend the meeting=
s? =20
> which side of town?

I try to regularly attend the East Side Meetings at Sequoia.  I will be
at the InstallFest2 in Glendale (likely one of few times I will be on
west side)

--=20
Derek Neighbors
GNU Enterprise
http://www.gnuenterprise.org
derek@gnue.org

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