Membership database

Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:02:10 -0400

Uh. I definately have a problem with sharing my information with ANYONE without my consent. I do not consider subscribing my email address to a list to be a consent to give that information to whomever YOU please. I believe in 100% privacy. The only reason I do not  "hide" my email address from other list people is, whats the point? it gets listed when you send emails to PLUG anyways. As soon as you strip out my email address from the From field and replace it with just PLUG or something anonymous then I will see the point in making my name invisible to list members.

Is it really THAT hard to make it an opt in link you sign up through on the PLUG website? 

> 
> From: Tom Achtenberg <toma@fh.org>
> Date: 2002/06/28 Fri PM 12:45:05 EDT
> To: "'plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us'"
> 	 <plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
> Subject: RE: Membership database
> 
> I see no problem at all with an opt in only database which is what I believe Kimi is proposing.  Those who wish to be included simply sign up much the same way many users on this list signed up for the "Registered Linux User" database.  That one created no flak and this one shouldn't either.  As long as the list administrators make the list membership open to viewing by any list member, we really don't have a complaint if someone used that to manually copy all our email addresses into a list for whatever purpose they want.  We do all have the option of hiding our addresses from viewing.  Only a few of us have opted for that.  I'm a bit surprised by all the concern from a group that is primarily composed of anti restriction libertarian leaning people over the idea of someone exercising their freedom to collect data from a public source. 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kimi A. Adams [mailto:kimi@unitywave.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 9:15 AM
> To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> Subject: Re: Membership database
> 
> 
> Beginning of Kimi's rant......
> 
> I am busy 12 hours a day. I have many tasks that pop up here and there and 
> many contacts.  If I did not want to be part of this listing, for the exact 
> reasons you mentioned of being able to ask questions and get answers, then 
> I wouldn't be here.
> 
> No one has stated at this point that you *have* to be part of a 
> database.  My business is making money doing services and selling products 
> that are run by and used on Debian.  My business is to know what I do and 
> where my company is going.  However, I don't know everything and as much as 
> people wish to think this, I don't know that much outside of running by 
> business with Linux.
> 
> PLUG and AZOTO have both talked about projects and most people do them so 
> that they can *market* their skills.  How is creating a database of those 
> same people creating so much flak on this list?
> 
> That's what I want to find.  A database of skills that will help me help 
> all of you.  If someone walks in my door with a need, I want to fulfill it, 
> even if I am not paid.  That's the structure of our business and how come 
> we are still here even though many ISP's are out of business or failing.
> 
> End of Kimi's rant.......
> 
> 
> At 6/27/02, you wrote:
> >I'm afraid I didn't sign up to this list to have my email put into a DB with
> >a list of skills/references on me so that someone can go in there and just
> >send me email whenever they have a problem. I thought that was what PLUG was
> >for, to discuss the problem and get multiple points of view and figure out
> >the best tool for the job.
> >
> >It's funny how a LOT of people complain about being on someone's SPAM list
> >and when they get told "You can just delete it" they get VERY upset. "I
> >didn't want to be on it in the FIRST place!" Your proposing to do that to
> >everyone who hates SPAM.
> >
> >You talk about not wanting to have to go through all the emails PLUG
> >generates to find the answers to your issues. *I* do not want to have to go
> >thought all the PLUG emails AND everyones PERSONAL emails to me to find the
> >answers I need. I get enough e-mail as it is, I do not need to wade through
> >more. If someone sees I posted a response to answer a question and they wish
> >to follow up with me privately, thats fine. But I don't want emails just
> >coming out of the blue like crazy (NOT that I am saying you will. I am a
> >newbie afterall, I'm just stating a view point :) The opposite applies. If
> >someone whishes to give me an answer privately, that is also obviously ok.
> >
> >If anything, this idea would HAVE to be an Opt-In, not Opt-Out. Opt-Out is
> >just as annoyng as MSN/hotmail signing you up for thier spam, not telling
> >you, and then saying "Oh, well, its OPT-Out..."
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Kimi A. Adams" <kimi@unitywave.com>
> >To: <plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
> >Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 5:42 PM
> >Subject: Re: Membership database
> >
> >
> > > The purpose of any website or database that is accessible from outside is
> > > to get to information.  Just like Google and other search engines, it's a
> > > database that you would search for what you need from people who
> > > register.  Hans stated there is something being worked on for the
> > > website.  I have stated I have something available that can be tweaked to
> > > preferences.
> > >
> > > However you send information about the database is fine by me.  SPAM or
> > > not, if you don't want to read it, delete it.  We can promote it on the
> > > website and on the lists, including the announce list.
> > >
> > > I won't go into whether processing time, display time, hard drive space,
> > > etc. would be available or would take up too much of these resources.  The
> > > point is that I am wanting more to find the information that I am looking
> > > for instead of having to email the listing and searching through the email
> > > responses to get what I want or need at the time.
> > >
> > > I know there are sites out there where I can search for things that I may
> > > need or want at any given time, but PLUG people are who I turn to.  I want
> > > to know that if I am looking for this one part or this one service or
> > > someone who can wave this wand, that I can find it in my own time, rather
> > > than having to drag myself through lot's of emails and calls that get me
> > > off track from the "thing" I most want.
> > >
> > > Just kinda why I brought this up and how I would like to see things
> > > improved upon.
> > >
> > > Kimi Adams
> > > Unity Wave
> > >
> > > At 6/27/02, you wrote:
> > > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > >Hash: SHA1
> > > >
> > > >My thoughts on a member database.
> > > >
> > > >I think it is a great idea.  As of right now, we have little information
> > > >about who is subscribed to any of the mailing lists, other than their
> >mail
> > > >address.  Some people might consider that a "good thing".
> > > >
> > > >Any membership information should be gathered voluntarily.  We should not
> > > >require anyone to add information to the database.  We should warn them
> >that
> > > >we will collect at least the email address that they are using to
> >subscribe
> > > >to a list for the membership database.  We do, after all, consider anyone
> > > >subscribed to any of our mail lists as a PLUG member (makes our numbers
> >look
> > > >really great).
> > > >
> > > >I bet we could get Brian to capture a snapshot of the current
> >subscribers'
> > > >email addresses from Mailman.  We could them mass-email all subscribers
> > > >pointing them to a yet-to-be built web page with a form to fill out as
> >much
> > > >or as little information as they want in the database.  I bet we could
> >even
> > > >set up a mechanism to send new subscribers to get sent there
> >automatically.
> > > >Probably should set up a way to delete data when someone unsubscribes.
> >This
> > > >is tougher because a person may be subscribed to all the lists but only
> >be
> > > >unsubscribing from one or two.
> > > >
> > > >As far a web space for members, how much space do we have available that
> >we
> > > >can use for members' pages?  It is one thing to search the database and
> > > >display data about one member, but it will take a lot more space if we
> >set
> > > >aside even 1M of space for every member.  It will take some resources for
> >the
> > > >database web page that collects the data and for the database and for the
> > > >scripts that need to be written.  It will take more space to search and
> > > >display routines based on criteria input (sounds like a job for our PhP
> > > >gurus).
> > > >
> > > >All in all, I consider this a great project.  It would be even greater if
> >we
> > > >release all the tools after it is done.  I am almost surprised that
> >another
> > > >UG has not done something like this already.  So what do we need in terms
> >of
> > > >hardware, software, and manpower?  Who is gonna organize it? How many
> >members
> > > >would be interested in participating?
> > > >- --
> > > >Jim
> > > >
> > > >Freedom is worth protecting
> > > >
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> > > >=XeNW
> > > >-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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> > > >
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> > >
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